Shelby Harris joins Woody Paige, Ron Zappolo and Tom Green for a wide-ranging conversation as NFL free agency approaches, including why he’d welcome a return to Denver and what he values most in a head coach after playing for Kevin Stefanski in Cleveland. The group also debates the relevance of the NFL Combine in today’s data-driven league, Sean Payton’s potential play-calling role in 2026, and how offensive timing impacts defensive pass rushers more than fans realize. Plus, thoughts on the Olympics’ ability to inspire the next generation, the Avalanche’s presence on the international stage, and whether the Denver Nuggets’ recent loss to a short-handed Warriors team could become a costly wake-up call in the Western Conference playoff race.
Shelby Harris joins Woody Paige, Ron Zappolo and Tom Green as NFL free agency approaches to discuss his future in the league, what he looks for in a head coach after playing under Kevin Stefanski in Cleveland, and why a return to Denver would appeal to both him and his family. The group also dives into the controversy surrounding Olympic hockey’s 3-on-3 overtime format in the USA-Canada gold medal game, debates whether the Olympics still carry the same cultural weight in America, and reflects on how moments from this year’s Games continue to inspire the next generation of athletes. Plus, a closer look at why the NFL Combine may be losing relevance in today’s data-driven evaluation process, how offensive timing impacts pass rushers more than most fans realize, and whether the Denver Nuggets’ loss to a short-handed Warriors team could become a costly wake-up call in the Western Conference playoff race.
00:00 – Shelby Harris joins the show
01:30 – Olympics recap: USA vs Canada hockey
03:30 – 3-on-3 OT controversy in the gold medal game
06:00 – Is this the best Olympic hockey game ever?
08:00 – Do the Olympics still matter culturally?
10:00 – Joy vs pressure for Olympic athletes
11:00 – Inspiring the next generation
12:30 – Olympic representation vs winning pro titles
14:50 – Avalanche players on the international stage
16:40 – NFL Combine begins this week
17:00 – Shelby on skipping the Combine
18:30 – Electronic vs hand-timed 40s
19:30 – Why the Combine is outdated
21:00 – Data tracking vs traditional drills
22:00 – Broncos play-calling: Sean Payton or Davis Webb?
24:00 – Snap counts & play clock advantages
25:30 – Home vs road offensive timing
26:30 – Playing alongside Myles Garrett
29:00 – Sack record controversies
30:10 – Shelby Harris on free agency
31:10 – Kevin Stefanski’s coaching style
32:00 – Broncos reunion possibility
33:30 – Shedeur Sanders’ work ethic
36:00 – Life around NFL facilities
37:40 – American Financing sponsor read
38:00 – Nuggets’ emotional win after Doug Moe tribute
39:00 – Loss to short-handed Warriors
41:00 – Championship habits late in games
42:00 – Celtics matchup preview
43:00 – Nuggets chemistry concerns
45:00 – Aaron Gordon’s impact
47:00 – Bench contributions & rotation issues
49:30 – Coaching voice & leadership questions
52:00 – End-of-game execution problems
55:00 – Malone’s adjustments
58:00 – Western Conference playoff outlook
1:01:00 – Toughness vs talent
1:04:00 – Nuggets playoff mentality
1:07:00 – Final thoughts on Denver’s stretch run
1:10:30 – Closing with Shelby Harris
1:12:01 – End of show
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00;00;01;06 - 00;00;32;24
Tom Green
Hey, we got a very special guest joining us on the show today. Originally, we were planning to have the director of the FBI, but he couldn't make it. So we're going to talk a lot about the Olympics and the National Football League. Our special guest today is Shelby Harris.
00;00;32;27 - 00;00;50;02
Ron Zappolo
I thought we were getting the attorney general as a backup. Hey, everybody. Tom green, Woody Paige runs Apollo. We are thrilled to have in Shelby Harris, former Denver Bronco, former Seattle Seahawk. I guess I can say former Cleveland Browns writer. Not officially yet, but not official.
00;00;50;02 - 00;00;53;17
Shelby Harris
But anything can happen in the next couple of weeks. And so I appreciate you guys having me.
00;00;53;19 - 00;01;00;28
Ron Zappolo
We appreciate you being here. It's a big couple of weeks in your life with free agency starts what I think first, second week of March.
00;01;01;00 - 00;01;15;25
Shelby Harris
Around. And I try not to pay too much attention to it, to kind of give my family a little break just so it can get a little hectic. The weeks leading into free agency. My wife can get a little bombarded by people be like, where are you going? Where are you going? My wife just trying to enjoy the right now.
00;01;16;02 - 00;01;21;19
Shelby Harris
So we try to kind of just cool off of it until really like the week of free agency.
00;01;21;23 - 00;01;27;25
Woody Paige
I haven't seen you since we were eating garlic on every bite. Everything we had one night, you got.
00;01;28;01 - 00;01;31;11
Shelby Harris
The Super Bowl, the stinking rose, baby.
00;01;31;13 - 00;01;55;07
Tom Green
So Shelby's with us, but we want to start with the Olympics. Just wrapping up, over in Italy, a tremendous Olympiad. And, I think the the big bow on the end of it was that gold medal hockey game between the United States and Canada, a jack who's carving his name now into hockey history forever as the hero that won the gold for the United States in the overtime, the three on three, which is controversial.
00;01;55;07 - 00;02;05;18
Tom Green
But, Woody, that was, one of those games that they'll they will still be talking about when whenever, whenever they start doing it again. Yeah.
00;02;05;19 - 00;02;20;25
Woody Paige
McKinnon will has started talking about it. Yeah. And we'll continue to talk about it, I think because he said the best team didn't win. And there are some out there gloomy thought that Canada could win 5 to 1 in the game.
00;02;20;25 - 00;02;21;17
Ron Zappolo
They should have.
00;02;21;19 - 00;02;22;10
Shelby Harris
They could have.
00;02;22;12 - 00;02;45;02
Woody Paige
Had had those opportunities and let them get away. And and you know, we're kind of torn in Denver because the two stars of the Canadian team play for the avalanche. But I think it was not a miraculous victory to go in the direction of miracle, like what we saw in 60 and 80. I guess I'm not sure what.
00;02;45;04 - 00;02;45;23
Shelby Harris
That's.
00;02;45;26 - 00;02;51;13
Woody Paige
60, but, it was, sterling into it, I would say those.
00;02;51;16 - 00;02;53;04
Ron Zappolo
Days in Miami.
00;02;53;07 - 00;03;11;06
Shelby Harris
I enjoyed the men's and I enjoyed the women's. I just think that this in general, for a guy that necessarily doesn't watch hockey as much, you know, you can always watch the Stanley Cup, you can always watch the Olympics because the emotion, you can tell these guys care about it. These guys want to win and they're giving it their all.
00;03;11;10 - 00;03;29;13
Shelby Harris
And also this the finishes the last two games have had two overtime wins and and just in dramatic fashion. I just thought that for the guys and for the, you know, the young kids who are coming into this and don't necessarily like watch hockey, you just gain so many fans because of how intense and how exciting the ending was.
00;03;29;15 - 00;03;33;12
Woody Paige
But you'd have to agree, all of you. You should go to 300.
00;03;33;14 - 00;03;35;06
Ron Zappolo
You just took the words out of my mouth.
00;03;35;06 - 00;03;39;09
Woody Paige
To do this and how it's not big.
00;03;39;09 - 00;03;59;09
Ron Zappolo
If you go to three on three, it devalues everything. Can you imagine in a Stanley Cup playoff game, in game seven of a Stanley Cup Series, maybe the finals of the Stanley Cup, that we decided to go three on three? If the gold medal is that important, let them play. What's the hurry? Why don't let them play a while?
00;03;59;09 - 00;04;05;12
Woody Paige
Plus, you want to see the greatest athletes in the world in hockey. And you're missing 200.
00;04;05;14 - 00;04;22;28
Shelby Harris
Can you play without those two? It's absurd. Well, it's the same way in baseball. When they were putting the runner on second with extra innings. It's cutting the game and have it taken away off. Well no they don't do in the playoffs. You shouldn't do it in an Olympics. Yeah I think that's something where you want to see the best versus the best.
00;04;23;00 - 00;04;25;03
Shelby Harris
Then go out there and see who wins.
00;04;25;04 - 00;04;29;06
Woody Paige
And it it wouldn't bother any of us, would it, if they went 3 or 4.
00;04;29;06 - 00;04;30;09
Tom Green
Who cares? No, this is.
00;04;30;09 - 00;04;30;24
Woody Paige
The overtime.
00;04;30;27 - 00;04;36;02
Tom Green
I'm afraid. It's mostly about television and timing because they know three on three, that game's not going to take five.
00;04;36;03 - 00;04;37;21
Woody Paige
So you're pushing them on your own?
00;04;37;27 - 00;04;38;28
Shelby Harris
Yeah. But I think that's.
00;04;38;28 - 00;04;39;11
Tom Green
Why I left.
00;04;39;11 - 00;04;42;14
Shelby Harris
Television ultimately was three on three. I think they probably.
00;04;42;14 - 00;04;47;25
Ron Zappolo
Had pretty good ratings for that game. They would have loved if it had gone on. Yeah, a little longer.
00;04;47;29 - 00;04;49;10
Tom Green
I just think that game.
00;04;49;12 - 00;04;56;25
Ron Zappolo
But you're just you're bastardize in the game. Yeah. By going to three on three in the gold medal final.
00;04;56;29 - 00;05;13;03
Tom Green
Well for the avalanche specifically DeVante Eaves got stoned at one time by hell, a buck where he literally was four inches away from the goal line of shoving the puck in. And then MacKinnon missing the wide, wide open net a shot. He makes 100 out of 100. He missed by a couple of feet.
00;05;13;04 - 00;05;33;08
Ron Zappolo
And I throw one more thing in there to. It was a fun game. I got up like a lot of people did and watch the whole thing, and then I got done. And I'm kind of, I'm not a social media guy, but I find myself on there and there are people, younger people, telling me that it's the greatest Olympic hockey game ever played.
00;05;33;08 - 00;06;00;02
Ron Zappolo
And I thought, man, you know, you I get that you're young, all right. But there is nothing about that game yesterday that compared to the game, either in 1960 or 1980, because it was amateur athletes playing against supposedly the greatest team in the world. This, for all we talk about it, was a National Hockey League tournament. Yeah, that's what it was.
00;06;00;02 - 00;06;08;08
Woody Paige
Well, my friend call me and you should have thought about this. My friend called me and he said, well, I see that. I woke up late. I didn't miss anything yet.
00;06;08;10 - 00;06;11;13
Shelby Harris
Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, but not too much.
00;06;11;13 - 00;06;12;29
Tom Green
Not a big hockey fan, obviously.
00;06;12;29 - 00;06;29;25
Shelby Harris
When I woke up for the third, the third period and I'm extremely happy I did because that's it seems like that's what I everything really started to fall into place. But you know what it reminds me of, of when it comes to, you know, we're talking about the players and, and people pretty much saying like, this is the best hockey game that I've seen.
00;06;29;27 - 00;06;44;15
Shelby Harris
It's the same argument that you can say about when people say the best player they know. You don't talk about LeBron going Michael Jordan going to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and now it's all about when you were born and what you see. Yeah, we weren't ever we weren't allowed to see the Miracle on Ice. You know I like we meaning you.
00;06;44;16 - 00;07;03;14
Shelby Harris
Yeah. Yes. Well me like me the people people my age cause me like so I'm so I'm 34. So it's not like I'm. This is young. But still for us, this is probably one of the most interesting Olympics we've seen, where we've seen two hockey games go to the final wire. And and that's what brings us back for more.
00;07;03;21 - 00;07;25;16
Tom Green
I was thinking this Olympiad, we saw some of the great, you know, the falls, if you will, Lindsey Vonn crash and Ilya mallon and falling in his long program the American figure skater. And then we just saw these brilliant people who rise and ascend, as they do in Olympiads, whether it's Jack Hughes or Alyssa Lou or Mikaela Shiffrin winning that slalom.
00;07;25;16 - 00;07;48;09
Tom Green
And it's just funny because you think of how the Olympics always does make stars and sometimes the stars. The person who does suffer defeat, who gets that one opportunity and the the window slams closed on them. Just just at the wrong time. So I thought in that case, the theatrics of this entire Olympiad and the presentation by the Italians was was terrific.
00;07;48;11 - 00;08;02;14
Ron Zappolo
Yeah, I thought it was good, but I just I'll go back to something we talked about a few weeks ago. I just think in general, the Olympics in our country are not in general viewed the same way as they used to be.
00;08;02;17 - 00;08;05;08
Woody Paige
I disagree with that. You did say it a couple of weeks ago.
00;08;05;09 - 00;08;06;23
Ron Zappolo
I believe it too.
00;08;06;25 - 00;08;17;22
Woody Paige
And I thought there was more drama. I thought there was more excitement. We saw two young ladies, one in skiing, two in Colorado.
00;08;17;25 - 00;08;20;09
Ron Zappolo
Oh, I thought you meant Eileen GU.
00;08;20;12 - 00;08;54;24
Woody Paige
And one and, in women's figure skating, the joy that they had was incredible. I, as you know, I've covered like 14 Olympics, but I've never seen someone get up on the ice or up on a hill that was skiing or skating with more exuberance, saying, I'm doing this for me to have fun and enjoy, and I don't give a flying fuck what happens.
00;08;54;27 - 00;08;58;24
Ron Zappolo
Those people that are doing that, they're selling their brand and they're making.
00;08;58;24 - 00;09;23;18
Tom Green
But, but I will say this McKayla and Alyssa both weaponized joy because everyone else in that position feels the squeeze, and it shows, and sometimes they persevere through it. They use joy as a weapon. You could see that. Alyssa Lou I don't know anything about figure skating except like everyone, every four years you watch it. But I've never seen anybody skate in the Olympics having as good a time as Alyssa Lewis.
00;09;23;22 - 00;09;45;19
Woody Paige
Well, all you have to do is wait for the next competitor, the the young lady from from, Japan. And you could see the tenseness in her. And she finally made a slight mistake and lost. But I that's why if you make that comparison there, you could see the joy. That's one of the things I always miss about football.
00;09;45;22 - 00;10;17;12
Woody Paige
You never see the joy because you're buried in a helmet. And that was the one thing about the sport that was always something that you couldn't really develop a personality, because you can't get the personality to come through, particularly the more and more, mechanisms that are in front of your face. We went from, one bar, one single bar when you were a little kid to a cage to now a lot of guys wearing the visor.
00;10;17;13 - 00;10;38;02
Shelby Harris
I supervised the the dark visor. You can't see anything? No, but but going back to listen to, my wife is from the Bay area, and so we have, you know, ties to the Bay area. Watching her skate, it just it made it look like the old days of figure skating. The gracefulness. Yeah. The the smoothness, the way she skates.
00;10;38;07 - 00;11;04;07
Shelby Harris
But then what I thought was beautiful was she's like, I'm just doing this to show my art. Yeah, I'm. And then I had my daughter, my seven year old daughter was watching this. I can see the twinkle in her eye, but like, that's what this is all about. It's about inspiring the next generation of kids who want to maybe be in that position, who finally can see themselves on the TV going around doing that, doing these crazy tricks on ice.
00;11;04;14 - 00;11;31;27
Shelby Harris
I just think that the best part was it's inspiring the next generation to want to be the next Olympians. And like we know, we talk about how the Olympics have changed. That's the one thing that stayed constant is that it's a true, you know, time, time, and over and over and over again, the next generation is finding the little sparkle when it comes to the Olympics and watching these young women and young men, you know, really go out there and and give it their all for their country.
00;11;32;03 - 00;11;54;23
Woody Paige
That that's a great point, because I remember my daughter watching Mary Lou Retton and an entire generation watching her and saying, wow, they would get up. My daughter would get up on a coffee table and go across it, and she wanted to. It was the only time my life I'm covering the Olympics, and there was a Mary Lou Retton outfit that was in the media room.
00;11;54;23 - 00;11;58;21
Woody Paige
There was behind glass, and I was going to break glass and take it.
00;11;58;21 - 00;12;00;03
Shelby Harris
Off the wall.
00;12;00;05 - 00;12;09;11
Tom Green
Or did you ever think of any doing any Winter Olympic sports? You grew up in a Winter Olympic area. I mean, we walk in and I always think of all the speed skaters from West Allis. Isn't that.
00;12;09;13 - 00;12;29;20
Shelby Harris
So? It's, you got the Pettit, Ice Center, which is over at West Allis by the, State Fair park. You know, the only thing I could ever think of doing was watching. Cool Runnings and doing bobsled. Bobsled? That was the only thing I could think of. Other than that, you know, did they put so much time and so much technical skill into all those sports?
00;12;29;20 - 00;12;43;14
Shelby Harris
It was, you know, they're not really meant for people my size. You know, it's definitely a, you know, a more petite frame. But I just think and and I'll talk about this before any honor to go represent your country. Yeah. It's so cool because football we don't get that.
00;12;43;15 - 00;12;44;25
Tom Green
But football's coming to,
00;12;44;27 - 00;12;59;03
Shelby Harris
It's not real football. Not real football, but it's flag football, which is one step that I just wish that we had this opportunity where the whole world cared about football as much as we do, so that we can actually go out there and then play.
00;12;59;05 - 00;12;59;23
Ron Zappolo
It's coming.
00;12;59;27 - 00;13;13;17
Shelby Harris
Yeah. And play against the rest of the world, obviously is going to be way after I'm done playing. Yeah. But just, you know, obviously we call ourselves world champions after we get to, you know, after we win Super Bowl. But I would love that opportunity. Go out there and really crown ourselves world champion as an American. You guys.
00;13;13;21 - 00;13;19;21
Ron Zappolo
Nathan MacKinnon and kale MacArthur would have rather won the gold medal or rather hoist the Stanley Cup.
00;13;19;24 - 00;13;20;10
Woody Paige
Gold.
00;13;20;13 - 00;13;21;04
Shelby Harris
Medal of.
00;13;21;06 - 00;13;22;13
Tom Green
Yesterday. Yesterday, gold.
00;13;22;13 - 00;13;23;06
Shelby Harris
Medal. No.
00;13;23;08 - 00;13;34;03
Ron Zappolo
I disagree with all of you. I'll tell you why. They grew up in Canada. They didn't dream about winning the gold medal growing up in Canada. Well, they dreamed about hoisting the Stanley Cup. Maybe we'll get them here some.
00;13;34;03 - 00;13;41;20
Tom Green
Did you see, by the way, that one of the great images of the Olympics was when they handed that stuffed animal and the silver medal to Nathan MacKinnon. Well, that great.
00;13;41;23 - 00;13;48;06
Ron Zappolo
Image was you could tell that the Canadians had this much interest. But when you stand in there getting that medal.
00;13;48;06 - 00;13;59;05
Tom Green
But the stuffed animal that they handed out and MacKinnon, you know, is so intense and so serious that when they handed him that, I somebody had a great tweet saying, I fear for the life that that stuff.
00;13;59;07 - 00;14;18;01
Ron Zappolo
I think those guys grew up wanting to win the Stanley Cup. Well, just like I think guys in this country, okay, a lot of guys grew up wanting to win the world Series, not win the World Baseball Classic. Yeah, or the gold medal. Not that it's not important. It is. But I just think for them, the Stanley Cup is the super.
00;14;18;02 - 00;14;31;12
Shelby Harris
The Olympics is way more exclusive though. And so even though you got to think but it's interesting for football, there's 53 guys on every team. But if you were going to have an Olympic team, it'd be 53 guys on one team.
00;14;31;13 - 00;14;32;10
Ron Zappolo
The Olympics, that would be.
00;14;32;12 - 00;14;33;13
Tom Green
It's hard to me, but.
00;14;33;13 - 00;14;34;28
Shelby Harris
100% if you were to win that.
00;14;34;28 - 00;14;43;29
Ron Zappolo
The Olympics are a two week event. The Stanley Cup is the hardest trophy to win in professional sports. It's there's just a.
00;14;43;29 - 00;14;45;09
Tom Green
Different takes it more.
00;14;45;09 - 00;14;49;19
Ron Zappolo
Takes more. It takes a longer concerted effort to do it.
00;14;49;20 - 00;14;54;27
Tom Green
We're going to talk about the the Avs now with their two bronze, three silver and one gold medal.
00;14;54;29 - 00;15;01;26
Woody Paige
And they get one more point about the greatest bobsledder in history that we remember are the Jamaican.
00;15;01;26 - 00;15;03;02
Shelby Harris
Yeah yeah Cool.
00;15;03;02 - 00;15;39;20
Woody Paige
Runnings Herschel Walker. Yeah. Being a pusher in the bobsled and football is growing throughout the entire world. But I remember going with the Denver Broncos for an exhibition in Austria against the Saint at that time, San Diego Chargers. And I'm sitting there with a bunch of press from Australia and Rome. And that week when they opened up the Olympic Stadium, a year before the Olympics in Australia, they played, Aussie Rules, they played soccer, they played, NFL football.
00;15;39;22 - 00;16;10;20
Woody Paige
And a guy says to me, what are those guys have a conference after every 30s or so and so in growing it around, the NFL was trying its best. Brazil playing games all over the world, except they need to do a better job of explaining the sport. And that's I think that's left out in trying to play in Brazil, that people are just enjoying it, but they really don't.
00;16;10;21 - 00;16;12;17
Shelby Harris
They don't get it. You got to start with the youth, though.
00;16;12;17 - 00;16;26;25
Tom Green
Since you mentioned the conference, I want to point out for our listeners that Woody's chalkboard behind us is about conferences. Today's the chalkboard says, I hate office meetings. I don't drink coffee, eat pastries, or like, my coworkers.
00;16;26;27 - 00;16;29;19
Woody Paige
So, oh. I guess that's all about meeting fun.
00;16;29;20 - 00;16;31;13
Tom Green
It's tough on the coffee.
00;16;31;13 - 00;16;33;13
Woody Paige
That's why I don't ever keep jobs.
00;16;33;15 - 00;16;42;14
Tom Green
Shelby, this week, the NFL gets going. It never, never takes a week off. But now the NFL combine is going to get underway in Indianapolis. You were not invited. Or did you?
00;16;42;14 - 00;16;43;24
Shelby Harris
I know it was not invited.
00;16;43;24 - 00;16;48;16
Tom Green
Yeah. And what did you think you were going to be invited? Was that disappointing to you with. No.
00;16;48;18 - 00;17;03;01
Shelby Harris
I didn't expect to be invited. And I was happy not to be invited, truthfully, because everyone knows those electronic 40 times are a lot more exact than if you go to the pro day.
00;17;03;01 - 00;17;04;02
Tom Green
And you did not protest.
00;17;04;02 - 00;17;23;11
Shelby Harris
Yeah, I did the pro that I did the Northwestern Pro day and I did the Illinois State Pro day. So it's harder to get your 40 time right when you're doing the combine, because those electric 40s are extremely historically slow. And so when you go to the pro day, you're running, you know, you're running your 40 and everyone's doing it by hand.
00;17;23;13 - 00;17;42;11
Shelby Harris
And so it's human error involved. So that means you're going to be running a little bit faster. And so you don't have those times as silly to to fight off of when you go into the pro day. So you're able to just go and have a fast time and live on that right now. If you go to the combine, it's like, damn, all right, I just ran for nine.
00;17;42;12 - 00;17;47;26
Shelby Harris
I got to go up there now, my pro day, I got to try to run a four, eight, five, four, eight and try to lower that time. You've played.
00;17;47;26 - 00;17;48;07
Tom Green
11.
00;17;48;07 - 00;17;51;10
Shelby Harris
Years now. This is no. I finished my 12 year 12th year.
00;17;51;12 - 00;17;59;08
Tom Green
And how many times have you, because I've seen you make hustle plays that involved running 40 yards, but only a couple, like a 40 yard time.
00;17;59;10 - 00;18;01;26
Shelby Harris
Oh. Backhanded compliment. No, no, no, I.
00;18;01;26 - 00;18;05;21
Tom Green
Remember one plays very well where you ran all over the field, made a.
00;18;05;28 - 00;18;09;24
Shelby Harris
Chase down to. I would kill one you. Yeah. I like so it's getting back. You know it's.
00;18;09;24 - 00;18;10;24
Tom Green
Not lost on me.
00;18;10;24 - 00;18;12;25
Ron Zappolo
But but Tyreek Hill now he's in.
00;18;12;27 - 00;18;14;25
Shelby Harris
Oh yeah. Yeah. This week.
00;18;15;00 - 00;18;15;13
Tom Green
You got.
00;18;15;13 - 00;18;18;00
Woody Paige
Him. If you can find him. What what team is he on.
00;18;18;00 - 00;18;25;19
Tom Green
But a 40 yard time. You know they love that clock. But it doesn't necessarily mean anything for a guy playing your position I mean a 40 yard time.
00;18;25;21 - 00;18;33;10
Ron Zappolo
Well do you think that's true about all positions I mean they don't measure. Got the intangible stuff that separates good players from great players.
00;18;33;10 - 00;18;44;00
Shelby Harris
Well, one, we're running the 40 without pads on. Yeah. So what what use is that. When do we ever have to you know time. Somebody's running 40 yards without pads on. How many.
00;18;44;00 - 00;18;46;10
Woody Paige
Times have you run 40 yards in a.
00;18;46;10 - 00;19;04;25
Shelby Harris
Game? In a game, if I'm running 40 yards, it's probably not a good thing. Yeah. The be back yard is more likely we're losing or that's a touchdown run or or somebody that. So I do have a couple because we didn't win much in Denver. So obviously throughout our time I had to run a bunch. But you know the combine in general is is outdated.
00;19;04;27 - 00;19;17;17
Shelby Harris
You know what I mean? Because the running, the you know, running with pads on, jumping with without pads on, you know, changing direction of pads or everything you need to do needs to have pads on. So why don't we do this when you evaluate.
00;19;17;18 - 00;19;18;20
Tom Green
TV show and also.
00;19;18;20 - 00;19;39;26
Shelby Harris
You're making this a lot of games. A lot of teams make this stuff a lot harder. There needs to be if they are good football players on film, they're going to be good football players in the NFL. If they're not good playing football players on film, and then they go to the combine and run the four four, they're just going to be shitty football players in NFL that run for four fast.
00;19;39;26 - 00;19;55;18
Shelby Harris
That's what I mean. Like that's the difference. I think these guys, you know, these GMC scouts, they make this shit way harder than it needs to be. Just go out there, watch the films. Are they good football players? Are they playing good talent? Okay, cool. Let's take let's draft them. I think you could do the same thing in the future.
00;19;55;18 - 00;20;10;01
Tom Green
Remember, bum Phillips saying about Earl Campbell? He ran the they had a mile run to start camp and he ran it terribly. And someone asked him about, you know, what's what's the problem with Earl? He goes, well, if it's ever third in a mile, we won't give it to it.
00;20;10;05 - 00;20;27;11
Shelby Harris
But seriously though, that's like, that's the real issue. I feel like people don't realize with football as we we try to evaluate these certain things that have nothing to do with football, that, especially someone in my position, which I'm, I'm happy that strength and conditioning programs are catching up to this. And yeah, they're not having a deal.
00;20;27;11 - 00;20;38;12
Shelby Harris
I mean, 100 yard sprints. They said, you know what? We can do a bunch of ten, 20 yard sprints because that's all you should be doing. And that's how we should do, you know, really evaluating these guys coming out of college.
00;20;38;12 - 00;20;52;01
Tom Green
But you also never run ten yards without being like physically challenged by one, two, three people and having to move left and right and all it's, you know, I guess it's a metric. That's all it is. They can take it as far as they want with it.
00;20;52;03 - 00;20;57;18
Woody Paige
I think I'm the only guy here that's gone to the combine. And I thought it was all about Rich Eisen.
00;20;57;20 - 00;20;57;28
Shelby Harris
Yeah.
00;20;57;28 - 00;21;04;10
Woody Paige
For getting the 40 and everybody getting a reservation at the same restaurant. Steakhouse? Yeah.
00;21;04;10 - 00;21;08;18
Shelby Harris
Indianapolis sent Elmo with the shrimp cocktail. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00;21;08;18 - 00;21;13;03
Woody Paige
That's what that's what it's turned into. It's to me, it's it's just a convention.
00;21;13;06 - 00;21;21;17
Shelby Harris
It's a social hour for the coaches, for everyone to get together. Yeah, because everyone knows the combine is outdated. It is. There's so many other ways you can evaluate performance.
00;21;21;17 - 00;21;23;04
Ron Zappolo
You had it right. The scout.
00;21;23;04 - 00;21;46;07
Shelby Harris
Well, yeah. But also they put all these damn trackers and sensors in our shoulder pads from from college on the to measure your changes direction, your, you know, your maximum output, your velocity, all that stuff. And so to come to the combine and, and say, hey, you're not chasing anyone, you're not really running for anything, but go out there and do these drills and let's see how you do.
00;21;46;11 - 00;21;52;26
Shelby Harris
But then you when you already have all this data from when they're playing. So it's really it's redundant. But then it just doesn't make any sense.
00;21;52;26 - 00;22;05;08
Woody Paige
And as I told him a couple of weeks ago in San Francisco, what difference does it make because he's traded with another guy as good a player? Shelby Harris is he doesn't get to the Super Bowl for Drew Lock.
00;22;05;16 - 00;22;08;18
Tom Green
Yeah well that's yeah. Well that's the luck in that craziness.
00;22;08;19 - 00;22;12;26
Shelby Harris
Yeah. You know I mean we both get traded over there. We both leave with the Eagles.
00;22;13;02 - 00;22;16;23
Ron Zappolo
There were some lousy guys that play with Michael Jordan that got to a lot of fun.
00;22;16;25 - 00;22;18;02
Shelby Harris
So you know.
00;22;18;04 - 00;22;30;05
Tom Green
So this week will be interesting for Bronco fans specifically in that Sean Payton George Payton, they're going to be asked questions about things like who's calling plays this year, whether Sean answers those questions, you know. But it'll be the only answer.
00;22;30;05 - 00;22;30;12
Ron Zappolo
All right.
00;22;30;12 - 00;22;31;03
Shelby Harris
But I know that.
00;22;31;08 - 00;22;32;26
Tom Green
This will be the first time he's asked about.
00;22;32;26 - 00;22;33;03
Ron Zappolo
It. Yeah.
00;22;33;03 - 00;22;44;10
Tom Green
Him honest about Davis Webb and the coaching change on the offense and the potential for him to not call plays. But I think that that's probably the most compelling part of the combine this week.
00;22;44;10 - 00;22;44;20
Ron Zappolo
Yeah.
00;22;44;26 - 00;22;48;18
Shelby Harris
What do you think do you think Sean's calling plays. You think Davis is calling plays this year?
00;22;48;25 - 00;22;49;26
Ron Zappolo
I think Sean Payton I.
00;22;49;26 - 00;22;51;25
Tom Green
Can't imagine him letting go, but he does.
00;22;51;25 - 00;23;11;19
Woody Paige
Here's what's going to happen. I agree Davis Webb is not going to be sitting next to the quarterback. He's going to be up in the press box first time in his career, except maybe when he was injured because he didn't play much anyway. But he's going to call it to Sean, and Sean's going to accept it or dismiss it.
00;23;11;21 - 00;23;15;10
Tom Green
We'll call it. They can't. I think that takes too long. They're already late getting.
00;23;15;10 - 00;23;19;22
Shelby Harris
Players and that's the issue now. But I was told logistic issues when it came to calling.
00;23;19;22 - 00;23;29;03
Tom Green
Him as a defensive lineman, you see that clock and you know, you know, pick up an advantage every second that goes by that they can't adapt or adjust offensively.
00;23;29;09 - 00;23;45;22
Shelby Harris
Well, there's no hard count you know and and this is the best. This is the only thing that we need is the deadline. You come up to the line of scrimmage with 10s left there's no chance for a check with me. There's no chance for a hard count. None of that. If it wasn't motion, it has. You have to snap it on the motion.
00;23;45;24 - 00;24;02;24
Shelby Harris
But at the same time, I'm lined up in our stance. I'm looking at the play clock. It gets a five. I know when you hike it, that first hut, we're going. Yeah. And so that actually hurts your alignment. Yep. Because it makes them slower off the ball. And we obviously the whole point of the snap counts to give the old linemen an advantage.
00;24;02;26 - 00;24;14;12
Shelby Harris
But when you're using the play play clock is, you know, kind of going off the play clock. Two, all it does is give the D-line a bigger advantage and oh, linemen. And we're going forward. They're going backwards. So that's the ones that most of the time.
00;24;14;15 - 00;24;39;10
Woody Paige
It was, you know, offensive coordinator for the Broncos during the Peyton Manning era. And he said Peyton said, I want that play. Did you have it while we're running the play before that, he said, I want it within five seconds. And he said that when he said that to me, I was always going to have that done. So I think you can do it, but you better him.
00;24;39;11 - 00;24;42;24
Woody Paige
You better be doing it in 5 to 8 seconds. So I would think the.
00;24;42;24 - 00;25;07;21
Ron Zappolo
Other thing people never understand, because most people like take Bronco fans. They've never gone to a game on the road, and so they don't understand how crowd noise affects the snap count and how what an advantage it is for an offensive lineman when he can hear the snap count. Now, when in the difference, when you go out on the road and it's loud, explain to people how different it is.
00;25;07;25 - 00;25;26;11
Shelby Harris
Well, just look at Aaron Rodgers for example. You know, one of the all time greats when it comes to luring people off offsides. You know, getting the free play downfield. Any doubt that 99% of those plays happen at home. Yep. Because it's quiet. It's quiet. You're able to use your voice to get people to jump. You're able to play.
00;25;26;11 - 00;25;52;26
Shelby Harris
What are you able to just go extreme. You're loud and then very sudden on the road. It's all based off of the the silent count, the head to head moving off of the center. So the issue though the defense knows that too. And so even if you do it on 2 or 3, where the old lineman puts his head down and lifts it up, puts it down, lifts it up over and over again, nobody's nobody's afraid of that because we're just going off movement at that point.
00;25;53;03 - 00;26;10;07
Shelby Harris
There's no height. No there's not there's nothing to go off of. So all you're doing and that's why, you know, you see defenses all the time pumping the crowd up, saying, get loud. You just given us that advantage. Because how many times you see the old lineman jump. Yeah okay. Five yards. Now it's even more open the ears back and go eat.
00;26;10;14 - 00;26;26;22
Shelby Harris
But then another opportunity to really get that jump on the snap count because all we all know as pass rushers, if you just take 0.2 of a second. Yeah from US defense. You know a sack a sack fumble and 80 yard completion doesn't.
00;26;26;25 - 00;26;32;18
Ron Zappolo
Happen in the years back and going in eat. Tell us how good Myles Garrett was this year.
00;26;32;20 - 00;26;36;28
Shelby Harris
It's not fair because he definitely stole a bunch of my sacks I want that known like I really like.
00;26;36;28 - 00;26;40;08
Tom Green
Like like you were actually in on the sack and he got the credit.
00;26;40;08 - 00;26;58;19
Shelby Harris
Well no. Like I'll throw out the years. I'll say this like, you know, and this is the best part about playing D-line. It's one of the most competitive, I think, position groups out there. It's a race to the quarterback internally. Yeah, it's like it's a race to the quarterback. And we're not we're not haters. We don't hate on each other for for getting there.
00;26;58;19 - 00;27;19;20
Shelby Harris
But when it it elevates you when you play with players like Myles because you know he's getting there in two and a half. You know 2.5 seconds miles would probably be there. So that means how much better do you have to be to get. That's all it does is raise the play of everybody else around him. But the one thing I'd say about Myles, though, is this that it's unfair because he gets there every time.
00;27;19;23 - 00;27;35;15
Shelby Harris
You know, it seems like almost every time he gets there. I remember we played Chicago this year and I remember I like I like humped and we say hump is when you throw by, Jonah Jackson on and I was on the left side I go, I see Caleb Williams, I go to make a sack of that.
00;27;35;15 - 00;27;51;11
Shelby Harris
You know, Myles is right there. I don't know why. And the thing is like I threw Jonah Jackson and Myles somehow avoided Jonah Jackson and came back, made the flag play. And we both go in and tackle Caleb Williams at the same time. I'm like, I didn't see you, didn't even see you. But well, you.
00;27;51;11 - 00;27;52;14
Ron Zappolo
Should have got half a sack.
00;27;52;14 - 00;28;04;14
Shelby Harris
I didn't I didn't get half of the other half of that. But that's the disadvantages to playing with Myles. But the advantages once again he makes so much stuff sake. Sometimes a quarterback will come right to you.
00;28;04;17 - 00;28;06;18
Tom Green
Yeah because he'll push him up into the pocket.
00;28;06;18 - 00;28;11;16
Shelby Harris
Just like play with my power glue man. Yeah. You know I'll play with some great edge rushers.
00;28;11;16 - 00;28;12;09
Tom Green
Benito and Cooper.
00;28;12;09 - 00;28;17;23
Ron Zappolo
He fell down so Strahan could get the record to Joe Burrow on that last one.
00;28;17;23 - 00;28;39;05
Shelby Harris
Kind of that would have been my sack. And like. And anyone could say what they want to about it. But when I was it was a we were running the game where the other side tackle came inside. He picked for me. I came wrapping around. Myles was burning the edge. And so when Joe Burrow tried to step up, I'm right in his face.
00;28;39;07 - 00;28;54;16
Shelby Harris
So it's either you let me hit you or you just give yourself up. And so I know people talk about the Brett father Michael Strahan thing a lot. Trust me, I was a Packer fan. I watched it live. I remember watching it live. I was oh yeah. Bradford they they just gave it to him. They they made sure they gave you remember.
00;28;54;16 - 00;29;05;01
Ron Zappolo
With Tomlinson I did Myles say after the Pittsburgh game that oh they doubled me the whole game. Their whole idea was not to let me get the sack. And Tomlin came out and said no, we played them the same way.
00;29;05;01 - 00;29;12;26
Shelby Harris
No that's me. That's I saw I played I said yeah, I said the same thing because I heard the alignment mentioned it a couple times.
00;29;12;26 - 00;29;13;16
Ron Zappolo
So it was.
00;29;13;16 - 00;29;16;29
Shelby Harris
There. Rodgers mentioned it like with my own ears. You're not going to get I'm not.
00;29;16;29 - 00;29;17;10
Ron Zappolo
Going to get.
00;29;17;10 - 00;29;23;13
Shelby Harris
Yeah, you're not going to get it today. And so they're doing everything possible sliding to them chips double teams.
00;29;23;13 - 00;29;25;02
Ron Zappolo
So Tomlin was bullshitting everybody.
00;29;25;09 - 00;29;26;08
Shelby Harris
Yeah because it was.
00;29;26;08 - 00;29;27;12
Tom Green
Obvious why you got fired.
00;29;27;13 - 00;29;27;27
Ron Zappolo
That's why you.
00;29;27;27 - 00;29;36;04
Shelby Harris
Guys I was it's obvious from the beginning of that game the lead up to the Steelers game. The bills game. If the bin was game. Every team.
00;29;36;04 - 00;29;36;26
Tom Green
That TikTok.
00;29;36;26 - 00;29;54;21
Shelby Harris
Possible that was trying to do everything possible to make sure that Myles didn't get it. And now the Steelers game. Was it because of it TJ what holds that record to. Yeah. You know what I mean. Like you have to think about okay. Are there outside circumstances that are kind of making it like you're not going to get this on us because our guy has this record.
00;29;54;23 - 00;30;08;06
Shelby Harris
And in short, and you know, in the short amount of games and on stuff. So it's easy after the fact to be like, you know, I yeah, we weren't trying we didn't do anything different. But if you watch the tape you'll see it was extraordinarily different. Yeah.
00;30;08;06 - 00;30;14;01
Woody Paige
Presumably you will be a free agent. Right. You shall be a free agent.
00;30;14;03 - 00;30;14;23
Shelby Harris
Shall be, if.
00;30;14;23 - 00;30;15;15
Tom Green
That shall be.
00;30;15;15 - 00;30;18;08
Shelby Harris
Harrison. Good like that.
00;30;18;11 - 00;30;24;20
Woody Paige
If that happens, is there a coach in the league you would love to play for?
00;30;24;22 - 00;30;25;15
Shelby Harris
Well, I we.
00;30;25;15 - 00;30;32;26
Woody Paige
Would take that that you're going to go to that team. But I mean you've you've seen everybody 12 years, dozen years. Yeah.
00;30;32;29 - 00;30;34;24
Ron Zappolo
Put you in a small group a dozen years.
00;30;34;27 - 00;30;37;27
Shelby Harris
Yeah. And that's something I'm proud I'm very proud of.
00;30;38;00 - 00;30;40;05
Tom Green
Because aren't many guys left from that draft class?
00;30;40;07 - 00;30;56;11
Shelby Harris
Well, especially considering the way my career started up. The first my first two years in the league, I was on the practice squad probably about half a year. And then, you know, getting cut, going up and down, practice hard to active. My third year, not in the league for 15 and 17 weeks. On week 16, the Dallas was there for three weeks.
00;30;56;11 - 00;31;15;28
Shelby Harris
Got cut. The sign of futures here and was here for five years. And then I then my career took off after that. But I would say if there was a coach I wanted to play for in the league, it would have to obviously be the coach I just played for. Kevin Stefanski. You know, I, I love Kev, we get along very well.
00;31;16;00 - 00;31;36;24
Shelby Harris
He's a guy who listens to his players, understands his players and is there for his players. You know that. That's always been. He's been one of my favorite coaches. I've never had anything negative to say about Kev. Kev just always, you know, he's always looked out for me as a person and as a player. So I have all the utmost respect for Kevin.
00;31;36;27 - 00;31;59;06
Shelby Harris
And obviously, you know, I came back to Cleveland after my first one year to stay with Kevin, stay with Jim Schwartz, and to be on that defense. But, you know, obviously I love Cleveland. I love everything. You know, I would love to go back. But you know, you don't close any of your options. But I, I loved Kevin Stefanski and everything that he's done for me and my family.
00;31;59;06 - 00;32;11;15
Tom Green
You played here more than any other place. Is this also a place you'd like to play again? Obviously a you know, you had a good time with the Broncos, played with Vance before. Was that something with the Broncos being of interest to you as well?
00;32;11;17 - 00;32;30;06
Shelby Harris
Yeah, I would love to it. Obviously they're successful. They just won. You know they have a hell of a coach. And Sean Payton who will be in the Hall of Fame one day. You know they have a great infrastructure. I still know a good amount of guys on the team. I like how I like their work ethic and really just the mindset of the guys.
00;32;30;08 - 00;32;40;20
Shelby Harris
You know, I would love to really come back here and make my life a lot easier. Obviously living here and being around, but I'm not going to close any doors anyway. You know, when.
00;32;40;23 - 00;32;43;19
Tom Green
You're not closing doors anywhere, you wouldn't go.
00;32;43;21 - 00;33;07;20
Shelby Harris
No, because, hey, money's green. Oh that's green everywhere you go. And what I've always realized because obviously Cleveland had a bad rap when I went there. And I always will say this, I think the media makes more of a story about places than there really is, and so you can't judge it based off what you hear. Obviously, we have the NFL paid report cards that have been coming out with the NFL.
00;33;07;20 - 00;33;08;15
Ron Zappolo
They're getting rid of those.
00;33;08;20 - 00;33;17;15
Shelby Harris
Know that I'm getting rid of. I thought they were not going to be not be published. But I highly doubt they don't get out there. I know I thought those people. Right.
00;33;17;21 - 00;33;21;29
Ron Zappolo
I always wanted to know who scrimped on the cafeteria.
00;33;22;01 - 00;33;26;28
Shelby Harris
It was what it it was 40 jobs and really was the main one that, you know, we we.
00;33;26;28 - 00;33;33;09
Ron Zappolo
Have you here. I mean, you played with Sugar Sanders. What what were your thoughts?
00;33;33;12 - 00;33;51;23
Shelby Harris
I, I was highly impressed with the kid. So you got to think of it like this, and I'm I'm gonna call him good. The young man. Because, you know, you gotta think he's, like, 20 to 23 years old. I believe that he got definitely got the short end of the stick. You know, everyone made all these big deals about stuff that it was out of his control.
00;33;51;26 - 00;34;07;14
Shelby Harris
He can't control. Who's that is? You know, we got to. Just like Peyton and Eli couldn't control who his dad was or Bronny. You know? I mean, no one can control their dad. Is and how influential they are and how, you know, and how much power they have. But the one thing I will say is that solder works.
00;34;07;14 - 00;34;27;12
Shelby Harris
He works with. That's all he did. And and he, he takes the time to get to hang out with his teammates, which I think is extremely important, especially when you're a young quarterback, because it's all about building those relationships with the players and building that time with them so that when it is crunch time, you know how hard I've been working to get here.
00;34;27;12 - 00;34;35;26
Shelby Harris
You've seen it. You know the proof is in the pudding. You've seen how hard I've been working. So when it's crunch time, hey, you believe in me because you've seen the work.
00;34;35;27 - 00;34;43;29
Tom Green
It seems like, though, you like Kevin Stefanski, but it seemed like there was a Kevin Stefanski. Should or Sanders disconnect at times at least publicly.
00;34;44;01 - 00;34;48;05
Shelby Harris
I wouldn't even say that. Obviously. Like, we went through three quarterbacks this year.
00;34;48;05 - 00;34;49;02
Ron Zappolo
Yeah.
00;34;49;04 - 00;35;09;12
Shelby Harris
And you can't act like one of a single one of them is your favorite because you don't know if they're the permanent solution. Right. And I and I would come in the building every day and I would see either, you know, especially not really Joe, because Joe's a older, established quarterback. But every other day he talked about the Dillon, his offense going over offenses or you're doing his offense.
00;35;09;12 - 00;35;11;14
Ron Zappolo
How about this is awesome. Is he there too? Yeah.
00;35;11;14 - 00;35;37;18
Shelby Harris
And his arm was very helpful for all of them because Deshaun even though before he even came back to play he wasn't doing it like you know he wasn't going to do anything. He helped every step of the way. He was a guy who any question you needed from like you know from the young guys. He was there he traveled for when he should should was first away start and he hadn't traveled all year just to be there for him.
00;35;37;20 - 00;35;51;08
Shelby Harris
And so, you know, I don't I hate the narrative that goes around box the door because should do all he does. He don't work. And if that's if anything you got to give Deon credit for that. He taught him how to work. He taught him how to handle himself. It was.
00;35;51;08 - 00;35;55;17
Woody Paige
And he was one of the earliest men to get there because he was speeding so fast.
00;35;55;19 - 00;36;17;15
Shelby Harris
Yeah, but I was I was you know, and I hate I hate Cleveland suburbs for this reason, man, the speed limit is outrageously slow. I'm talking about literally like outside the facility. You're talking about 25 miles an hour. The whole, from a for me, my from the facility to all the way home for me. And I lived like ten, 15 minutes, minutes away, 25 miles an hour the whole way.
00;36;17;15 - 00;36;32;16
Woody Paige
Yeah. It's. Well, but Broncos in the valleys. No bargain either, because it's in a neighborhood. And von Miller would get tickets, and it's like they were trying to pick on the Broncos players so they could get Jefferson County could increase its revenue.
00;36;32;16 - 00;36;33;05
Tom Green
Douglas County.
00;36;33;05 - 00;36;34;01
Woody Paige
Yeah, yeah. Douglas guy.
00;36;34;01 - 00;37;00;12
Tom Green
Yeah. Hey, we're going to talk about, the nuggets. And they had a weekend, from one of their best games to one of the worst. But we'll do that after I tell you a little bit about our friends at American Financing. You got to be honest, these days, the math not adding up so. Well, whether it's the grocery store or skyrocketing insurance premiums, even people with steady jobs find that, families are being forced to rely on high interest credit cards to cover their expenses.
00;37;00;15 - 00;37;17;12
Tom Green
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Tom Green
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00;37;39;02 - 00;38;11;29
Tom Green
American financing at 855581 5828. Again, that's (855) 581-5828 or visit American financing dot net slash green. All right fellows, we turn to the Denver Nuggets. Last week. We obviously had a very, emotional show as we talked about, Doug Moe's passing, right as we were, doing our show. And then on, on the weekend they went to Portland and put up the highest total that they'd put up ever on the road.
00;38;11;29 - 00;38;16;28
Tom Green
And what do you wrote about that in the Gazette this week? A little bit about how much. Yeah. Well, I enjoyed that.
00;38;17;03 - 00;38;19;25
Woody Paige
I wrote that one's for Doug.
00;38;19;27 - 00;38;20;17
Ron Zappolo
I saw it and.
00;38;20;17 - 00;38;21;03
Woody Paige
It and.
00;38;21;03 - 00;38;22;06
Ron Zappolo
It was good.
00;38;22;08 - 00;38;46;23
Woody Paige
That seemed like a Doug Moe sort of game. And he did have the record when he was a coach on the road, 153 points, and it was almost as if. And none of the players really remember Doug. They may have seen some film or something. Or when he come back to town, but that was the way that the style of play that he did, when he was coached.
00;38;46;24 - 00;38;50;07
Tom Green
So we thought they were all set. Right. The nuggets were here, we go there.
00;38;50;09 - 00;39;19;25
Woody Paige
And then I watch the Warriors and I go, what's happening to you guys? Here's what I'm trying to just analyze it the best I can that yes they must have the Joker. They must have Murray. But they are missing Gordon. He is the essence of the team. I think from the standpoint of he's tough. He's not afraid to go out and really play hard and tough in every game.
00;39;19;28 - 00;39;31;21
Woody Paige
They're missing that at the end of the game. There's there's just a slight situation where they just go soft at the end of the game. That's when you've got to be your toughest. It would seem to me.
00;39;31;21 - 00;39;51;12
Ron Zappolo
I thought yesterday again, they played a lousy game coming out of the break against the Clippers seven one through the game away on a back to back where they're one of the best teams in the NBA. They came out in Obliterate Portland. What bothered me yeah they missed Gordon. They missed Watson yesterday. They were playing a team that was just on fumes.
00;39;51;14 - 00;40;10;13
Ron Zappolo
No Steph Curry no Draymond Green no Porzingis who had played well on Friday night. They lost the game without Jimmy Butler. And Jimmy Butler's out for the year. They lost the game in the first quarter. Jokic you played great in the first quarter. And they're down by 12 at the end of the first quarter. They were not ready to play the game.
00;40;10;13 - 00;40;34;11
Ron Zappolo
And don't give me the three games in four nights because they'd been off for ten days at the All-Star break championship teams. And Doug was great at this. Very teams that are, variable variable. Thank you. And they let they let Golden State after one quarter believe. Hey, if we just play hard we just play harder than them will win.
00;40;34;15 - 00;40;36;03
Woody Paige
And not only that.
00;40;36;05 - 00;40;52;08
Ron Zappolo
The Golden State hit every three in the first half. They went oh for 13. In the third quarter Denver got up the game six had the game and they let them score 15 consecutive points. Championship teams don't do that I'm sorry. They don't.
00;40;52;10 - 00;41;10;06
Shelby Harris
Win. You talked about this before we even came on the air. Because what it reminded me of was when Denver was on the other side of this, when they were in Milwaukee playing the Milwaukee Bucks. Denver had no starters playing, and actually Aaron Gordon played, and that's the game. He pulled his hamstring. And after that it was up complete.
00;41;10;06 - 00;41;29;12
Shelby Harris
All five starters were backups. And the bucks had all the starters. And the nuggets were out there and pretty much beat their ass. And throughout the whole game out hustled them, really outplayed them the whole game. And at the end of the game, the bucks almost came back. But the nuggets backups really held them off. Now this way it was a complete opposite.
00;41;29;15 - 00;41;51;26
Shelby Harris
The Warriors didn't have anyone playing the nuggets. Obviously not Aaron Gordon and paid Watson, but they had most of their star power playing and they came up short. Now I think this will be a lesson that they will concede later on in the season about no matter what, you can't take any opponent lightly, no matter who's playing, who's not, because as you see, this is a loss.
00;41;51;26 - 00;41;53;24
Shelby Harris
I come back and bite them in the ass later in the year.
00;41;53;25 - 00;41;55;18
Ron Zappolo
Yeah, they're trying to get seeding, but.
00;41;55;18 - 00;42;02;26
Tom Green
How does this how does this wake up call if it comes, come. They they have a couple days off now before Ron's Celtics come to town.
00;42;02;28 - 00;42;23;00
Ron Zappolo
Well, they're lucky they're catching the Celtics on a back to back. The Celtics are playing Phoenix on Tuesday night. Then they come in here and play the Nuggets Wednesday. But I watched the Celtics yesterday. The Celtics win games. And this is what's great about football and basketball. The harder playing team usually wins every time.
00;42;23;03 - 00;42;29;21
Woody Paige
Shelby, one of the reasons I really like doing this program is that if I'm worried about the Red Sox schedule, I can.
00;42;29;21 - 00;42;31;13
Shelby Harris
Get them. If I want.
00;42;31;13 - 00;42;36;11
Ron Zappolo
To know what's going on. It's like you're you write a Brewers baby. Yeah, there you go.
00;42;36;12 - 00;42;41;00
Tom Green
Your hometown stays with you. Does I still have teams.
00;42;41;02 - 00;42;43;03
Ron Zappolo
But, I mean, they should beat the Celtics.
00;42;43;03 - 00;42;52;24
Tom Green
But how do they like you talk about you know, is it coaching. Is it chemistry. You know you can talk about talent. But they had more talent on the floor than the Clippers. They had more talent on the floor.
00;42;52;24 - 00;43;07;09
Ron Zappolo
Than we should ask a professional athlete who's probably been involved in a ton of games, where maybe the team on the other side had more talent, but your team had more hard playing guys and figured out a way to win the game.
00;43;07;12 - 00;43;28;15
Shelby Harris
I think the issue is chemistry. They've had so many guys in and out, in and out that they can't really get a real good flow with their starting five right now, but these issues that are going on are going to be great for them later down the road. You hope and I and I really believe so because you guys that necessarily won't be playing come playoff time are playing right now.
00;43;28;16 - 00;43;33;23
Ron Zappolo
Do you trust this coach to get them to where they need to be?
00;43;33;25 - 00;43;41;08
Shelby Harris
Yes. Because the way he handled in the absence of his star players shows me he knows what the hell he's doing.
00;43;41;08 - 00;43;55;29
Woody Paige
Except I think he really needs a stronger voice as an assistant coach because he's not a. Wow. Well, get in your face kind of coach. Head coach? That's not his style, Michael Malone.
00;43;55;29 - 00;43;59;25
Tom Green
Would it behave differently yesterday? In that game against the Warriors.
00;43;59;25 - 00;44;07;07
Woody Paige
He almost need a trade in. He needs almost a malone. Doug. Moe. Yeah. Kind of got a.
00;44;07;07 - 00;44;08;15
Ron Zappolo
Jeff Van Gundy type.
00;44;08;17 - 00;44;09;11
Tom Green
But here's the thing.
00;44;09;11 - 00;44;10;15
Shelby Harris
Because you talk about ideas.
00;44;10;20 - 00;44;32;15
Tom Green
About having the chemistry and adjusting to these guys are missing. They play three and a half quarters pretty well with that chemistry. It's those last six minutes this year that they've suddenly lost track of. They become either easily defense tentative. I mean whatever it takes to lose. They've found that. Where is it? Like you said, they used to have the other.
00;44;32;15 - 00;44;55;09
Woody Paige
Side of that. That's why I said, Gordon, I just think that his presence and essence is missing there, that he's a guy. There's a reason why people around here started calling him Mr. Nugget. Yeah, but when you've got the two stars. Yeah, two all stars. But he is the guy that is sneaking under the gold making the easy shot.
00;44;55;09 - 00;45;22;23
Woody Paige
He's the guy that was making the three pointer at the gun. He's not the guy that's blowing it with three free throws, as we saw in the first of those three games. Yeah. And you said it. It was so funny that, forgive me for picking on people describing the game, but I said, well, yo Kitchen and Murray, you know, had that long weekend.
00;45;22;25 - 00;45;30;00
Woody Paige
Well, they were playing against a guy on a Clipper side that Kawhi Leonard that didn't seem bothered by the fact that he was at the All Star.
00;45;30;01 - 00;45;39;06
Ron Zappolo
I think you made a really good point a few minutes ago. That should be accentuated. They need a veteran NBA coach sitting next to the coach.
00;45;39;12 - 00;45;40;07
Woody Paige
Like his father.
00;45;40;07 - 00;46;07;07
Ron Zappolo
Yeah, maybe like his father. But I mean look at all these teams. Boston's got Sam Cosell, the Lakers have Nate McMillan. The Clippers have Van Gundy. You go down the list. All these younger coaches have veteran NBA guys. I think it's a really good point. He could be well served by having a guy who's sat on an NBA bench for a long time saying, hey, maybe we need to think differently.
00;46;07;07 - 00;46;15;11
Woody Paige
You guys watch the games. He, the head coach, is not letting an assistant coach take over timeout.
00;46;15;11 - 00;46;19;29
Tom Green
Well, they're only 15 or 20 assistants, so it's hard to pick which one they want to come in.
00;46;19;29 - 00;46;46;17
Woody Paige
And and I can't figure out whether you're assistant coach or you're the guy that paid $2,000 for that seat really well. And there's a guy not getting up. He looks like he's sitting in the coach's seat. I'm thinking, you know, I covered this game for 50 years. And I went, I can't figure it out. When Doug Moe was coaching, the guy sitting next to him was me because I left the press there because they were getting $1,000 chopper high.
00;46;46;17 - 00;46;54;27
Tom Green
Is your concern? Ometer about the nuggets right now, would you? You seem like you you're pretty comfortable. They're going to find it and be good at the end of the year and in the playoffs.
00;46;55;00 - 00;47;11;28
Shelby Harris
It just well, right now I would say like out of ten I give it a four. Oh, it's pretty because it's a chance for it to bubble over and become a 7 or 8, but also it's a chance of simmers down and they quiet all the all the doubt and the next over the next week or two.
00;47;12;01 - 00;47;30;18
Shelby Harris
And he started feeling confident about this team that, you know that we see. But it could go either way right now. Yeah. But right now like you really need and like you said that Aaron Gordon you need his presence. You need that veteran presence to sit there and palm everybody down and realize that the moment's not too big.
00;47;30;18 - 00;47;51;27
Shelby Harris
We've done it before, like, but I guess the biggest issue this is a different team, way away. A different team of years past. Yeah, it's a different bench. You have a lot of different guys. Give you minutes. I gave minutes before and, you know, you you it's Cam Johnson compared to Michael Porter Jr. So you know if all else fails you had a guy that could give you 25 as a snap of a finger.
00;47;51;29 - 00;48;02;21
Shelby Harris
Now you have more of an all around guy who's a team guy who's also been hurt. So I would be a little worried when it comes to playoff time because he hasn't played as much. And you and that's a guy that's going to give you quality minutes.
00;48;02;25 - 00;48;08;12
Woody Paige
This is a time to do it because Oklahoma City's missing the most valuable player. Forgive me. Yeah.
00;48;08;18 - 00;48;09;29
Ron Zappolo
But in a few other good.
00;48;09;29 - 00;48;28;05
Woody Paige
What are we seeing happening instead of the nuggets. It's San Antonio. Yeah that's come to the forefront. You're talking about numbers. Add 1 to 10 or whatever. To me you better not sleep on the Spurs because they got the guy that's going to be an MVP. He's going.
00;48;28;05 - 00;48;29;05
Tom Green
To run the league for a little.
00;48;29;05 - 00;48;29;21
Shelby Harris
Bit for a long.
00;48;29;21 - 00;48;43;15
Tom Green
Time. What's what's your concern at. And a 1 to 10 on the nuggets heart. No. Like a 1 to 10. Where would you how concerned are you about where this team is right now. Would you put it here.
00;48;43;18 - 00;48;45;08
Woody Paige
About my heart.
00;48;45;11 - 00;48;47;26
Shelby Harris
Yeah. He cared about the nuggets. His own heart.
00;48;47;26 - 00;48;49;04
Tom Green
I'm talking about me, man.
00;48;49;05 - 00;48;49;28
Shelby Harris
Yeah.
00;48;50;00 - 00;48;52;28
Woody Paige
I'm like a three.
00;48;53;00 - 00;48;54;08
Shelby Harris
For you or for the.
00;48;54;14 - 00;48;58;05
Woody Paige
By the end of the season, if I could make it. I'm trying to make it day.
00;48;58;08 - 00;49;21;01
Ron Zappolo
I'm. I'd say I'm at like at, 7 or 8. Yeah I yeah, I don't, I we, we talked about it a couple weeks ago. I think the nuggets if fully healthy or one of the 3 or 4 best teams in basketball, we talked about it a few weeks ago. This might be a year where the injuries are just too much to overcome.
00;49;21;01 - 00;49;35;10
Ron Zappolo
Too many people have been hurt for too long, and they may not be able to get it back in time. Even if Gordon and Watson come back at the end of the season, they'll have been out for a long time and you can't expect them to just jump right back in it.
00;49;35;10 - 00;49;46;25
Woody Paige
The other thing, I guess what, because if I could interfere two things about Jokic. He is not the same player before the injury. It's not quite there yet. And he still has a really.
00;49;46;27 - 00;49;47;10
Tom Green
Still high.
00;49;47;10 - 00;49;48;17
Ron Zappolo
535 point.
00;49;48;17 - 00;49;49;06
Shelby Harris
Not the same play.
00;49;49;11 - 00;49;51;07
Woody Paige
It's not the same player though.
00;49;51;09 - 00;49;55;15
Ron Zappolo
He almost had a triple double in the first quarter yesterday. He flirted with.
00;49;55;15 - 00;50;12;15
Woody Paige
It I know but you can say about a Wilt Chamberlain or Michael Jordan you can say you carry the in and it's not quite happening. And he's got the wrist problem that we saw last season. He more occasionally tape around it. I just want to see.
00;50;12;15 - 00;50;25;00
Tom Green
That that intangible thing. You see it's not as I guess you see it in basketball a lot, but it's a hockey thing. It's a football thing. A little bit of sand, that little bit of grit in you that doesn't allow you to lose that game.
00;50;25;00 - 00;50;35;22
Shelby Harris
You know, I didn't know that's and that's that's a lot of the squad. The like you said Mr. Nugget, the dive on the ground for loose balls.
00;50;35;24 - 00;50;37;24
Tom Green
At the end of the game on defense. I'll take.
00;50;37;24 - 00;51;03;25
Ron Zappolo
That. You know what else? So Doug used to say this too, because he used to he used to laugh and joke and goof on Mike Fratello when the head coach looks like the substitute high school gym teacher. If there's nothing wrong with that. But Shelby can tell me this. I know in the NBA, players reacted to big guys or former players that knew what they were doing.
00;51;03;28 - 00;51;09;17
Ron Zappolo
If you weren't one of those two, it's hard for better being read Holtzman or read our back.
00;51;09;17 - 00;51;11;11
Woody Paige
I know you, Hyson.
00;51;11;13 - 00;51;11;24
Tom Green
Tommy.
00;51;12;00 - 00;51;15;13
Woody Paige
Tommy. I mean, man, you you didn't want to mess up.
00;51;15;13 - 00;51;19;07
Ron Zappolo
You don't want to mess with Carl. Silas. It was almost respect.
00;51;19;12 - 00;51;24;25
Shelby Harris
Because I'm a player, though. That's the biggest thing for somebody who's done it before.
00;51;24;27 - 00;51;26;05
Ron Zappolo
Somebody respected.
00;51;26;05 - 00;51;47;01
Shelby Harris
That. Somebody has done it before. Somebody has been in your shoes. Somebody that can realistically talk to you about the game. Not from a outside perspective, Riley. You know, I mean, from we're talking about shifting body weights on post ups and little things like that. Both you've had, you would have had the done it you've done in order to really talk about these things.
00;51;47;02 - 00;51;53;01
Ron Zappolo
When a player comes to you and says, this is a problem I'm having, and the coaches, yeah, I get it. I used to have the same problem.
00;51;53;02 - 00;51;58;02
Woody Paige
I know I wondered about the Miami Dolphins coach. You grew up here.
00;51;58;04 - 00;52;01;16
Shelby Harris
Oh my. The Chargers. Oh yeah.
00;52;01;19 - 00;52;05;20
Woody Paige
The players would look at me and go, really? You're just, you know, in.
00;52;05;20 - 00;52;06;15
Ron Zappolo
Capri pants.
00;52;06;16 - 00;52;06;28
Tom Green
Chalkboard.
00;52;07;01 - 00;52;10;26
Shelby Harris
Guy. But if you're going to be the type of guy, you got to handle yourself a certain type of way.
00;52;10;27 - 00;52;22;26
Woody Paige
But yeah, but I saw the players that played with him said you could fight with him and stuff, but they respected him and he's gone to a position now where he can. I think he's.
00;52;22;26 - 00;52;23;27
Tom Green
Got a real he's.
00;52;24;01 - 00;52;26;09
Ron Zappolo
Real quick. He can really help. Yeah.
00;52;26;11 - 00;52;37;11
Tom Green
Hey, we have our Milwaukee bureau chief here. What what is going to hold what's Janice's future because it sees the he's the buzzword of the NBA. Is Giannis a buck or is Giannis gone.
00;52;37;13 - 00;52;58;03
Shelby Harris
You know just you know you back me in a quarter here I believe that Giannis will stay because I believe though that they will find a way to make a couple moves trade a couple people away. Bring in a better core that he'll be happy with, that he will be able to compete with and rebuild around him. Yeah.
00;52;58;03 - 00;53;19;01
Shelby Harris
But the issue and you know, obviously I'm not saying 31 is old because I don't believe 31 is old. But in the NBA when you got a 19 year old, you know, kids running around really running the May 2018 and 2021, they're looking at 31 like, I like, well, if you're going, we're going to give you significantly less than if he was 28 for a trade package.
00;53;19;03 - 00;53;41;12
Shelby Harris
And I don't think that Milwaukee's is going to give him away. I think more because Milwaukee also knows that if they were to trade him, they need significant they need a significant draft package in return because they have no pieces, they have no draft picks for at least the next four. I think 3 or 4 years. They they really don't have any young players on their team that are maybe worth trading.
00;53;41;12 - 00;54;06;14
Shelby Harris
We've traded away every young player that we had. So for young it's like it's going to take a trade like we have Myles Turner. You got to bring in another real scorer because now you have Kyle's koumas Kyle Kuzma. But he's so inconsistent. One day he'll give you two to next. Still give you 25. Yeah. You're going to really need somebody in there to the take that burden off from a Khris Middleton type who can go and give you 2025 every day every day.
00;54;06;14 - 00;54;16;19
Tom Green
Do you know does he want to leave or stay. Has he. Because he's he's kind of stayed out of it. But it certainly seems like people around him have created buzz around him wanting to leave.
00;54;16;21 - 00;54;37;08
Shelby Harris
I've heard both. I've heard that he's never actually said he wants to leave. But then I hear that people in his camp say he wants to leave. So you know, you hear it. Oh, you know, you hear both ways. And I guess I'm just hoping as a bucks fan that it never becomes the I hate it here. I want to leave because we all know the NBA does have a bias towards the bigger markets.
00;54;37;08 - 00;54;59;24
Shelby Harris
Teamwork LA and and they the the ESPN. The media has a way of pushing all the the big time players and small markets, pushing them out, trying to say, all right, well, you know, we've already heard the the rumors about, we gotta get y'all honest in New York. Y'all say Miami. And then the eventually you're going to hear when B they're going to say when we got to San Antonio.
00;55;00;03 - 00;55;14;13
Shelby Harris
It's not big enough. But I think that the walking to be the best place for him because Milwaukee will always, always want to remember what he did for the not for that championship. But then I also believe that they will always continuously keep trying to go over and beyond and try to.
00;55;14;13 - 00;55;21;21
Ron Zappolo
Make his game seven in that championship. That might have been and there have been a lot of great performances, an NBA and.
00;55;21;21 - 00;55;22;18
Tom Green
A virtuoso.
00;55;22;19 - 00;55;24;24
Ron Zappolo
That's up there, maybe at the top.
00;55;24;27 - 00;55;38;23
Shelby Harris
As a guy who is not a great free throw shooter to go in the game seven and a hit all those free throws without him making those free throws, they don't win that championship. He a 50 a 50 burger on on a on a game seven.
00;55;39;00 - 00;55;40;27
Ron Zappolo
It's it's up there.
00;55;41;00 - 00;55;42;12
Woody Paige
I don't care about the bucks.
00;55;42;12 - 00;55;44;06
Shelby Harris
I'm much more about the bucks.
00;55;44;09 - 00;55;50;06
Woody Paige
I'm, I'm much more big but didn't. Do you think the Brewers or the Rockies are going to be the better team?
00;55;50;09 - 00;55;58;20
Shelby Harris
Oh, we know we. I don't think there's even a question that the Brewers should sell everybody on the team and bring up everybody from the minors and still have a better team.
00;55;58;22 - 00;56;01;21
Ron Zappolo
Triple-A affiliate. We'll kick the Rockies as hard.
00;56;01;21 - 00;56;16;02
Tom Green
One of those franchises that does seem to be able to reload without going into the free agent market and trading away bigger contracts. There are certain teams that can do it. The Brewers, your hometown baseball team, they they know how to make baseball players.
00;56;16;02 - 00;56;36;14
Shelby Harris
And they scared the hell out of me last year for the last year to be the best season on record. And you know, we trade away Corbin Burnes. And you know now this year we trade the right Freddy Peralta. You know every year it seems like we're trading away one of our aces, Caleb Durbin. You know, we tend to kill Durbin to the Red Sox and you know, and my stereo went to the Red Sox.
00;56;36;14 - 00;56;51;27
Shelby Harris
And it seems like every time we get a player who we we build them all the way up, right? And then they get right next to free agency like Corbin Burnes, Freddy Peralta. And it's like, we're not we know we're not going to pay you. So what can we get for you? Good. Yeah, but.
00;56;51;27 - 00;56;55;27
Ron Zappolo
They're like Tampa Bay. They are really well, yes. Really well run.
00;56;55;28 - 00;56;56;08
Shelby Harris
Draft.
00;56;56;08 - 00;56;56;27
Ron Zappolo
Very well if.
00;56;56;27 - 00;56;57;23
Shelby Harris
You have.
00;56;57;26 - 00;57;02;25
Ron Zappolo
Although they have one of the maybe the most underrated manager in baseball, Pat.
00;57;02;25 - 00;57;03;06
Shelby Harris
Murphy.
00;57;03;14 - 00;57;14;03
Ron Zappolo
Gets more out of them than anybody else. And if you go back over the last five, six, seven years, their trades more times than not turn out pretty well. How did Quinn Priester turn?
00;57;14;03 - 00;57;23;03
Shelby Harris
Yeah, great. The only bad trade is the hater trade, though. The hater trade, we can all agree, was the worst trade that that whole administration was right there.
00;57;23;05 - 00;57;26;10
Tom Green
There though. Yeah, there was something there between him and the team. Yeah.
00;57;26;10 - 00;57;36;17
Shelby Harris
Yeah. Well because it's just then he knew he was going to get paid. Yeah. And then there was, he was like telling people he wasn't going to pitch for days if they weren't competitive.
00;57;36;20 - 00;57;50;20
Woody Paige
I was trying to transition to what the right arm was telling me before we went on that you think there is a difference in what you're seeing out of spring training, the way the managing the coaching well actually is made a difference with all those new players.
00;57;50;20 - 00;58;15;24
Tom Green
What you're hearing and seeing out of the Rockies this, this spring training is that they're practicing baseball, which doesn't sound interesting, except that it's new to them. Like I think they used to show up, go through the motions, play some spring training games, and then take their roster and go lose 100 games. And it does seem, whether it's from Depodesta, whether it is from Warren Schaefer, it seems like they're actually practicing baseball now.
00;58;15;24 - 00;58;31;01
Tom Green
They may still not have the horse to shut that. They may still not have the horses to compete, but it does seem like they are taking a different tack, which, if nothing else, taking a different tack is the way to go.
00;58;31;01 - 00;58;45;20
Shelby Harris
I think everyone's happy if they just if anything, they just don't lose a hundred games this year. Oh, I think that everyone would be so happy and it doesn't help that they actually play. And I would say one of the toughest, you know, divisions in baseball.
00;58;45;20 - 00;58;48;02
Tom Green
That means they got to win 20 more games than they did.
00;58;48;02 - 00;59;09;28
Shelby Harris
Last year then. Well that should I think they can 20 I think they can. They I thought was the bullpen like and then and we're still you know we're obviously still on an I was the first day on the opening day, but their bullpen, if they can revamp the bullpen, they'll also have a bunch of games last year where they would like to start working.
00;59;09;28 - 00;59;14;00
Shelby Harris
At least give him five six. They go to the bullpen and then it kind of implodes. It would.
00;59;14;00 - 00;59;14;16
Tom Green
Go away.
00;59;14;16 - 00;59;34;04
Shelby Harris
Yeah. So the idea is they are. If I look at this team compared to last year, I do say they would be a little better. The issue is though obviously your big money ticket item and Chris Bryant, oh he is nowhere to be seen. And it doesn't seem like this franchise is going to go out there and pay for another, because obviously the first one didn't work out.
00;59;34;07 - 00;59;51;27
Shelby Harris
And the Brewers ran into this situation before when Christian Yelich was getting hurt after they signed him to the seven year, $185 million deal, his his back was his back was hurt and the Brewers were worried about if they were going to be able to really compete if they wanted, because they weren't going to be able to sign him after.
00;59;52;00 - 01;00;00;05
Shelby Harris
Yeah. And so now it's the same way as the Rockies right now. There are big ticket items hurt, and they're trying to make way with what they got left.
01;00;00;07 - 01;00;04;04
Woody Paige
You're a basketball guy. You're a football guy. You're a hockey guy.
01;00;04;05 - 01;00;04;17
Ron Zappolo
Man for.
01;00;04;22 - 01;00;07;00
Woody Paige
Go through all of that. But you don't know baseball.
01;00;07;01 - 01;00;08;17
Shelby Harris
I know baseball, I know what you gotta do.
01;00;08;17 - 01;00;32;03
Woody Paige
I'm not talking about that kerosene core that they have that doesn't come in and put out the fire and they pour kerosene on it. What they need is three thumpers. They need guys that hit 40 home runs when they were successful in the early years, they had four guys that would hit 40 home runs. When they last went to the to the playoffs, they had guys.
01;00;32;04 - 01;00;42;28
Woody Paige
It hit a home run. Arnaldo go down the stretch. They had catchers that would hit 25 home run. So now they got guys Tovar. They want to talk about.
01;00;43;01 - 01;00;43;29
Ron Zappolo
Nah they should have.
01;00;44;04 - 01;00;45;22
Woody Paige
1518 months.
01;00;45;29 - 01;00;56;14
Ron Zappolo
They should have signed. He's right. They should have signed the 2 or 3 guys that can hit in the middle of the lineup. And even if they're going to lose a lot, have a reason.
01;00;56;14 - 01;00;58;28
Shelby Harris
For people to call Park how much that cost.
01;00;58;29 - 01;01;01;14
Ron Zappolo
You think, okay, here's an order.
01;01;01;17 - 01;01;04;06
Shelby Harris
Because people are still in the game for.
01;01;04;09 - 01;01;05;08
Ron Zappolo
15 million.
01;01;05;08 - 01;01;08;26
Shelby Harris
People, still going to the games regardless. Well, that's that kind of hurt.
01;01;08;28 - 01;01;13;19
Ron Zappolo
That's a whole different issue of and I'm not we're not about telling people not to go to game.
01;01;13;19 - 01;01;14;08
Shelby Harris
Well yeah, of course.
01;01;14;08 - 01;01;30;04
Woody Paige
But and that's not true. People are not going to watch the Rockies. I'm going to watch what I have. I've gotten the information that people go to. They go to special nights. They they go to fireworks, stuff like that Christian night or whatever.
01;01;30;04 - 01;01;31;28
Ron Zappolo
They go to see their favorite team play.
01;01;31;28 - 01;01;53;24
Woody Paige
So people are going to see the road hockey brewers, they're going to see the Chicago Cubs, they're going to see the sailors, Cardinals, New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, Los Angeles Dodgers. That's who they're going to see. They're going to see the Rockies and the Rockies have got to get themselves. Forget about Chris Boyd, okay. We've dealt with all that.
01;01;53;25 - 01;02;16;06
Woody Paige
Just give him his insurance money, get him out of there. Go spend for 2 or 3 guys that can hit the ball out of the ballpark. That's the way you take advantage of this altitude. Well, it's not with the not with the bullpen. It's not. I've watched the film this week. I'm going down in a couple of weeks to watch him play.
01;02;16;08 - 01;02;35;25
Woody Paige
Oh yeah, we're going to run. We're going to run a lot better. We're going to run back. We're going to steal some bases. This is not the go go White Sox of 1959. Forgive me, I'm the only one to remember. This is a team that can beat teams 16 to 14 not lose 21 to 4.
01;02;35;28 - 01;02;56;10
Shelby Harris
Well, the last reason I push back on that is because the Milwaukee Brewers are not built. Do I get it because you're like at the altitude. Yeah. You got to take advantage. Which I agree was I always say this that in any Colorado team should never lose a game at home because this is like your elements. You should know how to and you have to build your team based off the elements here.
01;02;56;10 - 01;03;15;18
Shelby Harris
The ball flies. Yes, we we know that. So you do need to build some hitters. But I do believe this. You do need the run. You do need to you need to do you need to learn how to bunt. Everyone needs to, but you need to know how to steal bases because all these runs matter. And I just always marvel at how the Milwaukee Brewers build a team year in and year out.
01;03;15;21 - 01;03;24;14
Shelby Harris
They might have one guy that hits over 30 or 30 home runs, but what they do, though, they all run the bases, they may actually.
01;03;24;21 - 01;03;26;04
Ron Zappolo
They're good defensively. They believe.
01;03;26;04 - 01;03;27;27
Shelby Harris
In runs. They save a bunch of runs.
01;03;27;27 - 01;03;31;18
Woody Paige
Do well, I apologize, I guess I must to start calling you baseball.
01;03;31;18 - 01;03;34;22
Shelby Harris
Shelby okay, let's talk about new game.
01;03;34;23 - 01;03;55;03
Tom Green
Because we're going to wrap it up on the EVs coming out of the Olympic break. You know, now they they do have their their two bronzes, three silvers and a gold. But the you know, offensively the avalanche had a great Olympics. The all the players who went over there did great. But they two now start a stretch run where we're going to find out the games.
01;03;55;06 - 01;04;14;02
Tom Green
Yeah. Where the schedule gets really tight. Their goalies were among those that had the three weeks off. But looking forward for this compressed schedule, the Avs are expected to not contend for a cup. They're expected to play for a Stanley Cup, and this next month and a half is going to be interesting to see.
01;04;14;04 - 01;04;17;23
Woody Paige
Obviously, what you said, they don't have to contend. Rockies don't.
01;04;17;26 - 01;04;18;27
Shelby Harris
Yeah, I no.
01;04;18;29 - 01;04;50;11
Woody Paige
They don't have for anything. I'm wondering you got Landeskog back look good. Yeah I think that's important I think that was again a missing ingredient. Like they needed to get to Cup before I think that, that he's so the captain is so important to this team and the goaltending has to continue to be is outstanding. He's been exceptional that we saw in the what I'd call the first half of the season.
01;04;50;14 - 01;04;56;26
Woody Paige
If it continues like that. We all know goaltending is going to what wins you the Stanley Cup.
01;04;57;03 - 01;04;57;29
Ron Zappolo
Or the gold medal.
01;04;57;29 - 01;04;58;29
Tom Green
Yeah.
01;04;59;01 - 01;04;59;13
Shelby Harris
Yeah.
01;04;59;13 - 01;05;21;24
Woody Paige
And so that if they can go through the stretch and they've got two goaltenders, both with my name and their names. Yeah. So I think that it's really critical to them that yes, they've got the talent up and the defensive talent, they've got a power lines that I think are out just as good as anybody in the league.
01;05;21;26 - 01;05;25;16
Woody Paige
But they get to get the goaltending that they've had up until this moment.
01;05;25;19 - 01;05;28;18
Ron Zappolo
It's hockey shall be. What do you think about that?
01;05;28;20 - 01;05;47;14
Shelby Harris
Well I just think for them their their biggest issue is you don't want an Olympic drag. Yeah. You don't want the Olympics to drag on for too long. And then now you're five games out of the break in your own five. But especially since my guys more than most teams, they had a lot of players, eight guys, you know, they had a lot of players played in the Olympics.
01;05;47;14 - 01;06;08;27
Shelby Harris
And so it's all about just really resetting and getting back on this. Your real team, the avalanche getting back on the same page. And I think their success will really just depend on how long that takes. And we'll see. But I really do believe though, that them having so many players on this Olympic rosters, I think it's going to hurt them.
01;06;08;29 - 01;06;28;00
Tom Green
Well, we'll see how they manage. MacKinnon, MacArthur. Brock Nelson, Devonte Eaves, those guys who played all the way through the two fins. Let now and let let Conan and, give Grant the to see how they manage their, their time on the ice because it can be it it's taxing. That's three more weeks. And.
01;06;28;03 - 01;06;38;15
Ron Zappolo
Shelby, I got to tell you, I've never met you until today, but I've followed your career and stuff. Not only are you delightful, if you don't get a job in the media when you're done, you screwed up.
01;06;38;18 - 01;06;39;26
Shelby Harris
Appreciate it. But, I.
01;06;40;03 - 01;06;45;26
Ron Zappolo
Mean, you got thoughts and you're creative. You take advantage of me.
01;06;45;28 - 01;06;51;06
Shelby Harris
I learn from the best man I'm working with. What the ball was. Well.
01;06;51;08 - 01;06;55;04
Ron Zappolo
I mean, maybe I don't know if you want to stay in football or not, but if you want a career in the media.
01;06;55;04 - 01;07;05;12
Shelby Harris
Well, I'm getting old. Well, so it's time. And actually, it's funny, you say that. So this is why I do all this stuff. You know, it's time for me to figure out next what's next. We have got to be ready.
01;07;05;12 - 01;07;08;19
Ron Zappolo
For Tommy Jackson, who was a pretty good weakside linebacker.
01;07;08;20 - 01;07;08;29
Shelby Harris
Well.
01;07;09;02 - 01;07;17;20
Ron Zappolo
You remind me a lot of Tom. And, you know, Tom wanted to get a job. He didn't know what he was going to do. And he turned it into a great post football career.
01;07;17;20 - 01;07;22;20
Shelby Harris
So yeah, well, that's why I do radio a couple days a week. I do this stuff with you guys every once in a while.
01;07;22;23 - 01;07;32;20
Woody Paige
But I tell you what the solution is going to be for you. When Tom Jackson's career was winding down and he was trying to figure out what to do, he and I wrote a book together.
01;07;32;22 - 01;07;33;03
Shelby Harris
And I.
01;07;33;03 - 01;07;49;04
Woody Paige
Made him a star. And the moment that book came out, ESPN hired him for the next 20 years. So if you really want a future that is successful, high paying, fun, not much work, you and I should write a book.
01;07;49;04 - 01;07;50;05
Shelby Harris
It is time to write a book.
01;07;50;11 - 01;07;52;16
Woody Paige
Maybe we'll call it Shelby in Shelby County.
01;07;52;21 - 01;07;54;15
Shelby Harris
Oh, yeah.
01;07;54;18 - 01;07;54;27
Tom Green
Shelby.
01;07;55;02 - 01;08;11;22
Woody Paige
We had the most fun I had in San Francisco was we were together about five hours a day because, yep, we had no schedule because nobody would tell us. And we just go grab people in the dark. Come on. And he did an incredible job of.
01;08;11;25 - 01;08;16;01
Woody Paige
Interviewing the people that came on because we had a variety of them.
01;08;16;03 - 01;08;17;29
Shelby Harris
From J.A. down to.
01;08;18;00 - 01;08;25;20
Woody Paige
It was like Girl Scout cookies in terms of different types of, a variety of people coming from Jordan.
01;08;25;23 - 01;08;35;20
Ron Zappolo
But that's great to hear from Woody, because most athletes in my years and years doing it, they're very used to answering questions. They're not used to asking.
01;08;35;21 - 01;08;52;02
Shelby Harris
That's a different it's that's a different realm. Because like when we were out there, Super Bowl, I did an interview with Carson Messenger there, in a for rookie two year defensive rookie year. And he was my teammate. And I thought about it halfway through. I'm like, this is my first time doing a stand up interview, like this sort of thing.
01;08;52;02 - 01;08;53;14
Shelby Harris
But it was it was fun. It was cool.
01;08;53;15 - 01;09;01;07
Tom Green
But you also get to ask him stuff. You wouldn't ask him in the locker room. You're asking him stuff so he can address everyone. Whereas in the locker room, you might just be asking, well.
01;09;01;08 - 01;09;07;03
Woody Paige
What Shelby, who were playing got going for him? We'll make this, ten minutes of.
01;09;07;06 - 01;09;07;18
Ron Zappolo
Kissing his.
01;09;07;23 - 01;09;11;16
Shelby Harris
Ass. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it, I love it. Thank you, thank you.
01;09;11;21 - 01;09;32;19
Woody Paige
Get him into the time that, Brian Greasy and a few others that have gone from football into the media, and I said, don't tell me what I know. Tell me what I don't know. Yeah, I know what the time is. I know that that was a quarterback sneak. I know that defensively that's a blitz. Tell me something I don't know.
01;09;32;19 - 01;09;53;12
Woody Paige
And what he has done. And talking about shadow work today is something that and like we don't know about that. And so that's that's my advice to him. If someone that is an observer for a long time and that's what I saw in San Francisco, your career is going to continue. So you've got at least you'll be a practice player this year.
01;09;53;15 - 01;09;57;16
Shelby Harris
Oh wow. Thanks. So another way.
01;09;57;19 - 01;10;16;01
Ron Zappolo
Hey, here's my one piece of advice. And it's very small. And somebody gave it to me a long time ago. And at work when you're, you're going to interview a lot of people when you get out of pro ball, you can think about the interview, kind of visualize the interview, don't take a set of questions and just listen to what they say because they'll determine where the interview goes.
01;10;16;05 - 01;10;31;09
Ron Zappolo
And I've seen young interviewers do this where you sit down with somebody like, you're going to interview Woody and you got a list of questions. And in Woody's first answer, he says, hey, I want to come out. I'm gay. I'm 80 years old. You haven't even heard it. You're on to the second question.
01;10;31;09 - 01;10;34;14
Shelby Harris
What it has, I feel, but I'm just using that as.
01;10;34;19 - 01;10;43;00
Ron Zappolo
But you know what I'm saying? Shall we just listen to what they say? And it sounds easy, but it takes a talent to listen, to actually listen.
01;10;43;00 - 01;10;44;16
Woody Paige
To all the parties.
01;10;44;17 - 01;10;46;18
Shelby Harris
And my wife wants me to do better, take questions.
01;10;46;20 - 01;10;49;11
Woody Paige
Do it. If you listen, that leads to the next move, to.
01;10;49;11 - 01;10;51;23
Ron Zappolo
The next question. I sat there with Dan, but.
01;10;51;23 - 01;10;53;04
Woody Paige
He's good in and for good.
01;10;53;04 - 01;10;53;22
Ron Zappolo
Everyone and.
01;10;53;27 - 01;10;55;01
Woody Paige
For a.
01;10;55;01 - 01;10;56;29
Shelby Harris
Person to appreciate that.
01;10;56;29 - 01;11;16;18
Woody Paige
There was a lot of fun if we just didn't have to, didn't deal with, with a couple of people that were, running around like when my grandmother, lived in Mississippi and she did invite me over for lunch on Sunday, and she'd cut the head off a chicken. Gosh, I saw a lot of people.
01;11;16;18 - 01;11;18;07
Shelby Harris
Down there that said.
01;11;18;12 - 01;11;19;17
Woody Paige
Let's go.
01;11;19;19 - 01;11;19;23
Shelby Harris
On.
01;11;19;23 - 01;11;26;11
Tom Green
That note. Yeah. Shelby, it's been great to chat with you. Thanks for taking the time to joining us here on After the Horn. Hopefully we'll see you soon.
01;11;26;13 - 01;11;28;05
Woody Paige
Oh, I thought oh, I thought you talk to me.
01;11;28;08 - 01;11;29;10
Tom Green
No, it's all.
01;11;29;10 - 01;11;31;01
Ron Zappolo
About thanking you for anything.
01;11;31;03 - 01;11;41;10
Tom Green
It's been nice of you to share your chicken story. Yeah. Best of luck with the next step in your pro football career. And obviously, we'd love to keep visiting with you here as often as you can.
01;11;41;13 - 01;11;44;12
Shelby Harris
Well, appreciate you guys having me on. You have a lot of fun. Thank you guys.
01;11;44;12 - 01;11;44;27
Ron Zappolo
You bet.
01;11;44;28 - 01;12;01;21
Tom Green
We always, like to hear from you. If you want to reach us, you can always find us here at eight eight. That stands for After the Horn. For those of you wondering about that at at Gorilla Sportsnet, that's going to wrap it up for this week. Hopefully we'll see you right back here again next week for another edition of After the Horn.