Hall of Fame coach George Karl joins Tom Green, Ron Zappolo, and Woody Paige for a wide-ranging, candid conversation that starts with the Denver Broncos’ dramatic playoff win and quarterback injury and expands into coaching philosophy, NBA roster construction, Nikola Jokic’s place in history, and the enduring impact of the ABA on today’s game. Karl reflects on underdog leadership, player development, Nuggets-era memories, and the upcoming documentary chronicling the soul and influence of the ABA, while also sharing thoughtful perspective on sports, culture, and where the game—and the country—are headed.
Hall of Fame coach George Karl sits down with Tom Green, Ron Zappolo, and Woody Paige for an expansive conversation that blends football, basketball, history, and perspective. Karl opens with his reaction to the Broncos’ playoff win and the loss of their starting quarterback, explaining why being an underdog can actually empower a locker room and free coaches to think differently. Drawing on decades of experience, he discusses leadership when stars are unavailable and why defense, belief, and opportunity still matter most in January football.
The discussion then shifts to the Denver Nuggets, roster construction, and what recent stretches without key players reveal about depth, patience, and long-term planning. Karl weighs in on Nikola Jokic’s place in Nuggets and NBA history, the evolution of the modern game, and the growing influence of European-style basketball. From there, the conversation turns nostalgic and revealing, as Karl and the panel dive deep into the ABA era, its personalities, physicality, innovation, and cultural impact, setting the stage for Karl’s upcoming documentary on the league’s overlooked legacy.
The episode closes with a thoughtful discussion on sports as a reflection of society, the role coaches and athletes play in speaking out, the influence of money on modern sports, and whether competition can still serve as a unifying force. It’s a rare, unfiltered look at the game through the lens of one of basketball’s most respected voices.
00;00;00;27 - 00;00;19;07
Tom Green
The Broncos have made their way to the AFC Championship game. They extracted a win from the Patriots. The price of that overtime extraction, though, was their starting quarterback. And we're going to talk a little bit about the Hall of Fame baseball picking a new class. That's why we have a Hall of Famer with us here today. George Karl's here.
00;00;19;10 - 00;00;37;10
Tom Green
After the horn.
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Ron Zappolo
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to after the horn runs of polo. Tom green, Woody Paige, we are thrilled to be joined by one of my favorite people, one of the ten winningest basketball coaches in pro basketball history. I won't run down all the teams you coach, but I know what they are. George. Karl. George, it is so good to see you.
00;00;58;21 - 00;01;03;28
George Karl
Sports. Beer. Give me a beer of a bunch of old timers like me and George.
00;01;03;28 - 00;01;05;16
Ron Zappolo
We only have old timers.
00;01;05;19 - 00;01;09;11
Tom Green
I know you're overqualified. Yeah, you're good with us. Hey.
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Ron Zappolo
How are you feeling? Number one.
00;01;10;28 - 00;01;26;11
George Karl
I feel good. You know, I have, my head and neck cancers. My throat is always dry. It's always allergies and dry mouth and stuff like that. But, you know, when you get older, you don't want to talk that much anyway.
00;01;26;14 - 00;01;38;15
Woody Paige
Yeah, well, you picked a really great place to live in retirement in Colorado, the driest here in the whole world. Yeah. I mean, everybody that comes out here has dry mouth and dry throat, but.
00;01;38;21 - 00;01;43;12
George Karl
They tell me I would be better if I was on sea level. But so we I love them to like much.
00;01;43;13 - 00;02;04;02
Woody Paige
We were next door neighbors already told stories about, our relationship over next door neighbors. His daughter would come and play in my backyard, when she was like, 1 or 2 years old. But I have to tell a story. Friend was visiting me. You know him? His name is Gail Whitely. He's coming over to my house. And those houses looked alike.
00;02;04;05 - 00;02;24;12
Woody Paige
And so he went in. George calls, he sat on the sofa, and George comes down. He thinks he's in my house and people don't know. Gil did talk radio forever, he said on the sofa, waiting for me to come in the room or something. And George comes down towards us. What are you doing here, Gil? He said, what are you doing.
00;02;24;14 - 00;02;26;01
Tom Green
George?
00;02;26;04 - 00;02;34;20
Woody Paige
And George said, do you want a beer? And so, about two hours later, I said to go, where are you been? He said, I've been over talking to George.
00;02;34;23 - 00;02;51;13
Tom Green
So I was so close to your house. Just didn't quite get in. George, we got a lot to talk about with you. Everything from these nuggets today to, what's going on in the NBA. But I know you've made a film a big part of making a movie about the ABA. We're going to get to all that in a minute.
00;02;51;13 - 00;03;06;19
Tom Green
But we got to start because our viewers count on us every week to talk about the Broncos first year. You look ahead now to the Broncos because everyone's talking about that's a great win. And now you have your backup quarterback to play the AFC Championship game.
00;03;06;21 - 00;03;16;27
George Karl
Well was I I don't know if I've ever witnessed my heart man. Happy churning what the hell happened.
00;03;16;27 - 00;03;17;26
Tom Green
So sudden.
00;03;17;29 - 00;03;49;12
George Karl
You know. And I mean and then the the the and felt like a blown was blown up and then after sending him off for a couple days, I think Sean's going to have a lot of fun with today. He's gone from supposed to win. So now I'm the underdog to win. And I think he's pretty clever. I don't know a lot about football, and I don't think they don't come up with a game plan that'll be interesting.
00;03;49;12 - 00;04;03;12
Ron Zappolo
But here, as you do know a lot about coaching, and I know you coached a lot of games when you were without your best player. How do you talk to your team and how do you convince them that we can still accomplish the goal?
00;04;03;13 - 00;04;32;15
George Karl
I think it's easier. I think being the underdog and not sure being a damn good team, I mean, their defense is legit and I think we all know you can win an NFL game with just your defense. But as a coach, yeah, it gives opportunities for guys that never have the opportunity. You're on to do some things that as coaches.
00;04;32;17 - 00;04;42;17
George Karl
You wouldn't do. But now you kind gonna have to find a couple what I call wild cards. They're gonna they're wild card. It's during the game.
00;04;42;20 - 00;04;46;19
Ron Zappolo
You need a Jalen Pickett. You need a Julian Strother.
00;04;46;25 - 00;04;54;09
George Karl
I mean we have the guy from Philadelphia won a Super Bowl with Nick Foles.
00;04;54;12 - 00;05;00;08
George Karl
And that was that was a shootout I guess I was going that's Brady.
00;05;00;10 - 00;05;06;05
Woody Paige
Did you see the Nick Foles. Statement on social media.
00;05;06;07 - 00;05;07;16
George Karl
I did not.
00;05;07;19 - 00;05;27;00
Woody Paige
He wrote Monday he said I really feel sorry for what happened with the Broncos. And Bo Nix. And my prayers are with the team and with the player. But I just want you to know that there's a possibility that you can still win the Super Bowl with a backup quarterback.
00;05;27;02 - 00;05;27;25
Tom Green
You know what I'm saying?
00;05;28;00 - 00;05;29;13
Woody Paige
He's talking about himself.
00;05;29;14 - 00;05;30;24
Tom Green
Hey, look what the.
00;05;30;24 - 00;05;40;11
Ron Zappolo
Album is doing with the nuggets. This last month without their best players. I mean, it can be done.
00;05;40;13 - 00;06;23;26
George Karl
I'm, you know, every day, at North Carolina when coach Smith welcome. I said there's three things on the more just smarter get better play together. And that's kind of playing hard. There will play hard every night and NBA game there's an out of it. It's a talent not an attitude. And I think there's there's the nuggets have been constructed and I and since I've been here I think the most positive way I think their roster construction this year is from prepare them for an NBA run.
00;06;23;29 - 00;06;43;22
Tom Green
Well to talk more about the nuggets then since we're there it it's kind of an interesting lens now to look back at the Michael Malone Calvin Booth impasse that those players that Calvin Booth liked that McMahon didn't necessarily want to play have stepped in and look like they belong like they belong on the floor. They belong in the league.
00;06;43;22 - 00;06;55;05
Tom Green
It's it's just a it doesn't mean one's right or wrong, but it does mean that it's different now to look back at it and see those players because of what they've done in the last month or so.
00;06;55;07 - 00;06;58;22
George Karl
Well, I'm sure that to be written off, it's going to work.
00;06;58;23 - 00;07;00;04
Tom Green
Right.
00;07;00;06 - 00;07;14;22
George Karl
I don't know what you know, because his injuries are worse mirrored. They're hiring a lot of information on that. It doesn't always give me, a security that is going to be okay.
00;07;14;25 - 00;07;23;11
George Karl
But the NBA right now doesn't have a lot of great teams. And I think Denver, where I think, okay, is a great team.
00;07;23;17 - 00;07;24;09
Tom Green
Right.
00;07;24;12 - 00;07;47;02
George Karl
And I think I think the other team that can be a great team. I don't think they're there yet. They're there yet. But I think it's going to be a good run. And then their younger players watching this come on. There were but the one thing from my standpoint.
00;07;47;05 - 00;07;51;14
George Karl
I've been disappointed in the teams that we put on the court with young.
00;07;51;16 - 00;07;51;28
Tom Green
Right.
00;07;52;05 - 00;08;01;27
George Karl
We've got one of the greatest players ever to play the game. And in a lot of ways, I already had a lot of a lot of talent and wisdom.
00;08;02;01 - 00;08;03;18
Tom Green
They've missed the window a little bit.
00;08;03;20 - 00;08;15;18
Ron Zappolo
So many. Jokic is it too early to ask you. You know the NBA better than anybody. Where do we put him now historically where do we rank him or is it too early to say.
00;08;15;19 - 00;08;18;16
Woody Paige
Is that would that be above Denzel or below did that.
00;08;18;16 - 00;08;19;06
Ron Zappolo
Would be above.
00;08;19;06 - 00;08;20;27
Tom Green
Dan. Dan puts him above Dan.
00;08;21;03 - 00;08;22;05
Ron Zappolo
Dan puts him above.
00;08;22;10 - 00;08;25;14
Tom Green
Oh, I'm glad.
00;08;25;17 - 00;08;28;17
Woody Paige
Because he put he put in all time nuggets.
00;08;28;19 - 00;08;30;03
Ron Zappolo
But yeah. Yo catch number one.
00;08;30;07 - 00;08;57;11
Woody Paige
I am surprised though. I'm sorry. I answer his question, but, I wanted to break in when you said Denver's the team that can compete with OKC, but you were involved with a team that I think is coming, and you better be very afraid that, I mean, the San Antonio Spurs, because of what they have got in the middle of that lineup and what they've managed to put together.
00;08;57;13 - 00;09;12;07
Woody Paige
And that's I'm seeing no San Antonio Spurs team unlike anything I've seen since they had the big two upfront, years ago when they won championships. But you were there when they had some damn good teams. Oh.
00;09;12;08 - 00;09;30;01
George Karl
Man. I mean, they have they have, in my mind, the Yankees before Yogi and Jim Duncan, I mean, Jim, nothing was very much like the Oakland, no nonsense Nola Flash and Guy, but man, damn, they played the game basketball around.
00;09;30;02 - 00;09;33;01
Woody Paige
And they had Admiral at that time to them.
00;09;33;04 - 00;09;47;01
George Karl
And then they left. And then Duncan and said, man, that's his superstar. He made Ginobili a superstar, made Tony Parker a superstar. And Nokia's saying that.
00;09;47;03 - 00;09;54;01
Tom Green
He doesn't need anything. So many NBA players need either adulation, the ball or whatever attention.
00;09;54;03 - 00;09;59;18
George Karl
The most humble player is Tim Duncan. Before now you think so?
00;09;59;18 - 00;10;01;13
Ron Zappolo
He would have loved to have coached him.
00;10;01;15 - 00;10;04;25
Tom Green
Oh man, oh, man. Just hey, I'm.
00;10;04;28 - 00;10;06;16
George Karl
Sure everybody fall in love with them.
00;10;06;22 - 00;10;07;12
Tom Green
Yeah.
00;10;07;14 - 00;10;15;25
George Karl
I was on radio here in town. Johnson is the best. There's one of the best five passes. Not as a center back in the game.
00;10;16;02 - 00;10;17;07
Tom Green
Yeah.
00;10;17;10 - 00;10;26;07
George Karl
And I think I think when I was in, in my head I was trying to lead the league in this. And I think going.
00;10;26;07 - 00;10;29;29
Tom Green
There and rebounding it you know that's that's a hard double.
00;10;30;01 - 00;10;45;03
George Karl
And what I love about what's going on the game is kind of the Europeans are playing the game in slow motion, and the Americans are trying to play fast, fast, fast pace. And the best players are the European players.
00;10;45;05 - 00;10;46;20
Woody Paige
But you were in a situation.
00;10;46;22 - 00;10;54;22
George Karl
Military brown one guy because the Navy in the guys on Oklahoma say Alexander.
00;10;54;25 - 00;10;57;10
George Karl
I don't know if you remember a guy named James Silas.
00;10;57;10 - 00;10;59;27
Tom Green
Sure played with you and said.
00;10;59;29 - 00;11;00;09
George Karl
Hey, I'm.
00;11;00;09 - 00;11;00;28
Tom Green
James.
00;11;00;28 - 00;11;02;11
Woody Paige
I for people.
00;11;02;14 - 00;11;08;25
George Karl
Who shoot my ball, jump shot. Yeah, yeah. I agree that there were a lot of basketball games in San Antonio.
00;11;08;27 - 00;11;20;29
Woody Paige
He had a nickname that people now today we go, that's the strangest nickname. He was called the late Mr. Salazar because he always came on at the very end of the game. He reminds me of Jamal Murray.
00;11;21;01 - 00;11;23;26
George Karl
Kind of saying average Jamal. Yeah.
00;11;23;29 - 00;11;53;19
Woody Paige
And we're talking you're talking about getting respect in New York for it took years for him to get respect. The ABA having covered it from 1972 77, 78, 79, something like that on a full time basis. And you were in it. We were there about the same time you came along a bit later with San Antonio Spurs, but I always found it funny as a guy covering the ABA, and I'd go to NBA All-Star games and and I'd talk to those players about that.
00;11;53;19 - 00;11;56;26
Woody Paige
Nobody in the ABA was getting respect. And those players.
00;11;57;02 - 00;11;58;00
Tom Green
You you.
00;11;58;00 - 00;12;23;07
Woody Paige
Mentioned Julius Erving. I saw him play. He was with Virginia Squires and I wrote a story and I said, my ears popped when he when he went up for dog, I said, everybody's ears in the entire place. It was like something that he was like nobody that anybody had ever seen. He was like an extension, if you would, of Baylor.
00;12;23;09 - 00;12;46;19
Woody Paige
He was better than Elgin Baylor, because Baylor didn't have the artistic kind of ways that Julius did. But is that kind of what led to doing the documentary that you worked on with juice, Irving and others? Because the ABA didn't get the respect that it really deserved for the period of time that it was around for nine, ten years.
00;12;46;21 - 00;13;33;28
George Karl
No question. I mean, I was you know, I'm watching today's game. Come on everybody. And. It feels more like an NBA game that doesn't end the game. And there was possession oriented slow big guards, you know pounded inside, gave it to the center and then played from an out. And the NBA in integral one and integrated the game of basketball from the black athlete and integrated the first sport at a higher high level that allowed the black player to play without bashing or charity or whatever.
00;13;33;28 - 00;13;35;29
George Karl
Bullshit my lover said.
00;13;35;29 - 00;13;38;08
Ron Zappolo
That you are. Yeah, you can say whatever you want.
00;13;38;11 - 00;14;11;13
George Karl
And whatever bullshit the biases are are ownership's had at that time. Plus there was a dark time of black white problems in our country. When North Carolina was integrated. When I went to North Carolina, yeah, we had two black players. The no is just the beginning of it. And then during the movie and during the documentary, they hear stories was amazing.
00;14;11;18 - 00;14;15;14
Ron Zappolo
How many guys did you talk to?
00;14;15;17 - 00;14;31;01
George Karl
We have a lot, of lot of footage. We went to about four different cities Indiana, sounds on your own lane. And, Charlotte.
00;14;31;03 - 00;14;44;14
George Karl
We went to Ryan and brought a lot of guys to us that way. But, you know, we're talking about Elgin. Julius. People forget Spencer Hayward.
00;14;44;16 - 00;14;46;03
Tom Green
What our Hawkins say.
00;14;46;03 - 00;14;47;08
Woody Paige
I was telling him.
00;14;47;11 - 00;15;06;05
Tom Green
Those two guys were two guys who remind me very much of guys who were somewhat mythical because the NBA didn't know how to bring them into the league or what they were, but they were on the outside, like, what are we going to do with these two guys? They're explosive, brilliant players. And the ABS will take anybody. Yeah.
00;15;06;05 - 00;15;08;03
Tom Green
And and the ABA didn't.
00;15;08;03 - 00;15;19;22
Ron Zappolo
Have a TV contract? No. In those days. And if they had had with the NBA had people would have seen a more exciting better wilder brand of basketball.
00;15;19;24 - 00;15;35;14
George Karl
The NBA. They'd be able to slam dunk the three point shot, the cheerleader free agency and the high school players playing in the NBA all all the battle.
00;15;35;16 - 00;15;37;22
Tom Green
It cost left to drizzle.
00;15;37;24 - 00;15;38;05
George Karl
I mean.
00;15;38;11 - 00;15;53;20
Tom Green
Let's say you wanted Moses Malone to go in a national championship at Maryland, and all of a sudden, out of Petersburg, he was off to play pro ball. You know what else is a little thing? And I don't think it's that little because it didn't make it to the NBA at Red, white and Blue Ball. I was I was fabulous.
00;15;53;20 - 00;15;54;24
George Karl
I still think they should.
00;15;55;01 - 00;15;57;21
Woody Paige
I have won I won at home. Do you have one.
00;15;57;24 - 00;15;59;08
George Karl
I have jurors I love.
00;15;59;10 - 00;16;01;28
Tom Green
The red, white and blue was it was it.
00;16;02;01 - 00;16;23;13
Woody Paige
Was great. There was a guy in the ABA that came along and I, I watched him play in a you were saying teams played each other 17 times. Everybody got close because you'd see the same people over and over getting the same officials, the same players for both teams. And this kid came in from North Carolina and all I saw was his knees were always bloody.
00;16;23;13 - 00;16;37;12
Woody Paige
It is his hands were bloody. And George Karl gave another dimension to basketball that I hadn't seen this. He was on the floor. You were on the floor more than you were standing on the floor.
00;16;37;12 - 00;16;38;14
Tom Green
You were.
00;16;38;17 - 00;17;00;19
Woody Paige
And I just wondered that. I don't think I ever ask you what was the sense of you developing where you were going to get every ball there was? And we're here to praise you as a Hall of Famer, but I've never seen a guy that cracked more knees and elbows and everything else before people wear pads. Thing.
00;17;00;26 - 00;17;07;17
Woody Paige
Was that just something ingrained in you as a kid or at North Carolina or is that the way you got to stay in the league?
00;17;07;19 - 00;17;26;01
George Karl
I think there's a little bit I'm remembering on my old tongue. I grew up in Pittsburgh, and Pittsburgh kind of had a blue collar mentality, and my dad was a blue collar worker. Knew nothing about sports. My grandpa got me in sports.
00;17;26;04 - 00;17;27;24
Tom Green
And I.
00;17;27;27 - 00;17;44;28
George Karl
Don't think my dad would ever tell me. I said, I just want your home, smell your work hard and play hard and make a commitment. Drew it. You didn't understand anything about team basketball or anything about that.
00;17;45;00 - 00;18;10;08
George Karl
But there was a part of me that always enjoyed at that time, knowing in the inner city and a plan and having some brothers and learning the game. And, I always wanted to play fast. But the, the grittiness of the game to me was I like how working people who thought they were talented and so.
00;18;10;10 - 00;18;13;29
Tom Green
So so you get out of North Carolina, is it is it?
00;18;14;02 - 00;18;16;24
George Karl
I like there on the.
00;18;16;26 - 00;18;35;03
Ron Zappolo
Road you always tell me. And he played it. South Carolina was an All-American friend of mine, and he used to constantly say about George, you'd say, I loved playing North Carolina because Dean Smith taught those guys all the time to take charges so we could run right over there.
00;18;35;05 - 00;18;46;20
George Karl
I know we had a big fight in South Carolina. Yes. My summer, I guess it was my sophomore year. Frank McGuire, John River. John. Tom. Roger. Tom.
00;18;46;20 - 00;18;48;04
Ron Zappolo
Ryker. Reebok. Tommy.
00;18;48;05 - 00;18;49;08
George Karl
Old. Kevin.
00;18;49;08 - 00;18;50;17
Ron Zappolo
John. Roach. Yeah.
00;18;50;19 - 00;18;53;05
George Karl
George Floyd.
00;18;53;08 - 00;18;58;04
Tom Green
When you came out of college, was was the NBA an option for you? You were drafted.
00;18;58;07 - 00;18;59;05
George Karl
By the Knicks.
00;18;59;10 - 00;19;00;12
Woody Paige
For the fourth round.
00;19;00;12 - 00;19;13;16
George Karl
I think fourth wrong I think. But they drafted Ali McGuire in the first round. So I was offered a contract by next month to go play. And at that time the Eastern League, the minor leagues.
00;19;13;19 - 00;19;17;03
Tom Green
Was it Albany then or wherever they were? I don't know where they're.
00;19;17;08 - 00;19;21;21
George Karl
I think it was probably and somewhat north of Philadelphia. Okay.
00;19;21;24 - 00;19;28;01
Tom Green
Then somewhere Scranton or something. Yeah.
00;19;28;03 - 00;19;53;14
George Karl
Omission was Donald Zell at the time. There was a transition going on the basketball, and he got he was representing Herman Washington. There's veterans I don't know, work from and signed by an NBA team in San Antonio. I'm sure you got close there on the Angelo jerseys and signs on your arm. Donald went down and played tennis with them.
00;19;53;17 - 00;20;15;15
George Karl
Talk him into giving me a three year contract and I was late for camp. It was like a week in the training camp and I had gone my my car and North ion drove cross-country and one day and got in there about a week later.
00;20;15;18 - 00;20;41;21
George Karl
Thomas Augie was our coach. Tom wasn't what was mine is different than Norton, Brendan Smith and everybody I ever known. And I was kind of shocked by the talent being thrown into a training camp back then. We went two days every day, right? We weren't very good. But then we got through it and we made the Girvan trade.
00;20;41;23 - 00;20;46;09
George Karl
And then I think we made the swing later trade, maybe in the same year.
00;20;46;11 - 00;20;49;03
Tom Green
Yeah. And Silas came in with you as a rookie I think.
00;20;49;06 - 00;21;06;04
George Karl
Was was the year before me. You're playing now okay. That was for, but our guys like Swift. Skinner, Sturgeon, Johnson, Johnson.
00;21;06;10 - 00;21;14;20
Ron Zappolo
Third time at some point. Then when it clicked to you that the league I'm in now is better than the NBA.
00;21;14;23 - 00;21;32;14
George Karl
My early then played my first year. I was just trying to survive. But then, you know, I got I got to be a, I'm pretty good one of them and a basketball player. I wasn't much more than that. I'm not. Call me. I got a hustling stick.
00;21;32;16 - 00;21;48;21
Woody Paige
That's right. That's what I talk about. He was on the floor out. Yeah. You know what a great move. You kind of mentioned it because I was covering the team when they were Dallas and they played in SMU gymnasium, which wasn't a big gymnasium, and they'd give away a pony every night. And I.
00;21;48;23 - 00;21;49;22
Tom Green
Thought.
00;21;49;24 - 00;21;51;04
Woody Paige
Man, I want to try and win this.
00;21;51;04 - 00;21;53;06
Tom Green
Pony because I have a daughter.
00;21;53;09 - 00;22;06;20
Woody Paige
I'd like to take my daughter or pony home. I don't know how it's going to go. How do you get it later? Oh, we have a well. But so. So they moved and nobody in Dallas cared. It was not it was not going over well in Dallas. Moved to said Tonio.
00;22;06;23 - 00;22;07;13
George Karl
There's that ball.
00;22;07;14 - 00;22;19;02
Woody Paige
Game that became like one of the great franchise areas of all time because people had nothing. I mean, it was in sports. It didn't have anything.
00;22;19;04 - 00;22;22;04
George Karl
There was always only pro sports on you.
00;22;22;09 - 00;22;47;16
Tom Green
You mentioned the Gervin trade. I just because you have your movie about the ABA coming out mid February. I just saw George Gervin and Marty Supreme, the ping pong movie with Timothy Shalom Gervin had to change everything in San Antonio because he was one of those ABA players that if you were stuck watching the NBA, you didn't see it for years and then all of a sudden you went, what have I been missing?
00;22;47;17 - 00;22;50;09
Tom Green
This guy is one of the most unique talents I've ever seen.
00;22;50;11 - 00;22;52;18
George Karl
And here's a reminder of any man.
00;22;52;20 - 00;22;54;17
Tom Green
I'm trying to think of the lanky guys.
00;22;54;18 - 00;22;55;19
George Karl
Kevin Durant.
00;22;55;21 - 00;22;57;05
Tom Green
Yeah, another lanky guy.
00;22;57;06 - 00;23;09;24
George Karl
And you are long arms. Look. Yeah, so many of the guys I looked wrong were great players today. And Alexander looks like Cyrus to me.
00;23;09;26 - 00;23;28;19
Woody Paige
I but tell me what also is unusual. We haven't mentioned it where the characters I, I tell so many stories about Wendell that we talked about beforehand where we, we flew over,
00;23;28;21 - 00;23;38;29
Woody Paige
The Washington Monument. And he says to me, is this the Washington Post? And Wendell was kind of, off the wall a.
00;23;38;29 - 00;23;40;00
Ron Zappolo
Bit, but he was a good.
00;23;40;00 - 00;24;03;03
Woody Paige
Look at characters. There were no characters in the NBA. There were character. I've never seen a league that had characters that were the coaches, the officials. The, we were talking about one of the, referees, and he and I were close friends who would go drinking after the game, and a fan was giving him problems. He came over.
00;24;03;05 - 00;24;24;06
Woody Paige
I'm sitting right next to the coach. He came up and he gives a finger to the fan. That's like a. And the league says, we got to suspend you for three games. You gave him the finger and he said, I have a witness. And what he paid, he was sitting right there. And so they called me and they said, he said he was tossing a piece of gum that was in his mouth.
00;24;24;08 - 00;24;29;25
Woody Paige
And I said, that's exactly what happened. And they said, you're sticking with that story. I said, yeah.
00;24;29;27 - 00;24;30;08
Tom Green
So the.
00;24;30;11 - 00;24;51;18
Woody Paige
So the, the referee called me, said, thank you. He said, you know, I needed that. I was not going to get my money that for those two days. But there were so many characters in the ABA. And I think not only was the quality of the players missed, but we'd never seen a league that had guys like Gerald Gauvin who I said to, do you have anybody in your family?
00;24;51;19 - 00;25;03;08
Woody Paige
Said, I've got a brother. I said, what? What is your brother do? He said, he's in the import export business in new Jersey. And I said, well, it sounds really interesting. What does he import and export? He said, drugs.
00;25;03;11 - 00;25;07;17
Tom Green
Okay. Marvin Barnes, Marvin Barnes at the top of the list.
00;25;07;19 - 00;25;09;11
George Karl
There's that lawyer.
00;25;09;13 - 00;25;26;05
Ron Zappolo
That one spirit of saying do one more thing to talk about the fights. Because most basketball fans look at the fight in the Palace there with the Pistons and Pacers and go, oh my God. And I said to some friends who were younger than me, that was almost an every night occurrence in the ABA.
00;25;26;05 - 00;25;37;21
George Karl
I'm sure about every night, but probably every week. The one I remember was, I'm known in San Antonio for the Easter Day massacre.
00;25;37;23 - 00;25;39;00
Tom Green
Easter day.
00;25;39;03 - 00;25;49;17
George Karl
Tell me Sunday. It was, I believe is the fourth game of San Antonio, New New York.
00;25;49;17 - 00;25;50;23
Tom Green
That's right.
00;25;50;25 - 00;25;55;13
George Karl
Conference final. Yeah.
00;25;55;15 - 00;26;20;20
George Karl
And Brian Taylor. Elmer. Me, I have a scar on the bottom of my neck on my, chin near elbow. Elmer. There. I'm bleeding. I know the guy. He's running away from me. I jumped him from behind. Just jumped on his back, and then, I mean, the back of the head and it all breaks up was Jones was on their team, and we used to be on our team.
00;26;20;23 - 00;26;29;12
George Karl
And we made the team for the Larry King Trade show. There was a 21 minute fight.
00;26;29;14 - 00;26;29;19
Tom Green
And.
00;26;29;22 - 00;26;32;29
George Karl
21 minute, 21 miss breaking up ball.
00;26;33;01 - 00;26;37;21
Ron Zappolo
But tell people that's because y'all played each other back then all the time.
00;26;37;21 - 00;26;40;20
George Karl
We played Denver my last year, I think 17.
00;26;40;22 - 00;26;44;12
Ron Zappolo
There you go. So bad blood would you know you'd see him hanging over.
00;26;44;14 - 00;26;46;24
George Karl
Yeah I got you next week. Yeah yeah.
00;26;46;26 - 00;26;48;15
Tom Green
No no no I'll see you back down.
00;26;48;20 - 00;26;49;19
Ron Zappolo
I'll see you next week.
00;26;49;19 - 00;26;50;23
Tom Green
Yeah yeah.
00;26;50;25 - 00;26;55;00
George Karl
And that and every every team kind of had,
00;26;55;02 - 00;26;58;06
Ron Zappolo
An enforcer, an enforcer, a John Brisker.
00;26;58;10 - 00;26;59;09
George Karl
John Brisker.
00;26;59;15 - 00;27;05;03
Ron Zappolo
Who appeared and told me they were afraid of John Brisker. Like you just kind of left them alone.
00;27;05;05 - 00;27;08;15
Woody Paige
Trying to think of the guard that played for,
00;27;08;17 - 00;27;10;08
Tom Green
The horns.
00;27;10;11 - 00;27;15;25
Woody Paige
But went to Africa in the offseason and was never heard of, never seen again.
00;27;15;28 - 00;27;17;15
George Karl
Never seen him.
00;27;17;17 - 00;27;18;04
Tom Green
Yeah.
00;27;18;06 - 00;27;19;22
George Karl
Brisker was one I was yeah.
00;27;19;29 - 00;27;20;21
Ron Zappolo
Brisker I think.
00;27;20;24 - 00;27;28;29
George Karl
Have loss. And then supposedly his shoulder a religion term was the was a defensive back.
00;27;29;01 - 00;27;29;23
Tom Green
For the bears.
00;27;29;23 - 00;27;30;08
George Karl
Yeah with the.
00;27;30;08 - 00;27;31;16
Tom Green
Bears. That guy was great.
00;27;31;16 - 00;27;32;23
Ron Zappolo
Yeah, he was great.
00;27;32;28 - 00;27;33;10
Tom Green
He's one of.
00;27;33;10 - 00;27;36;05
George Karl
Them. Is related to John somewhere. Wow.
00;27;36;08 - 00;27;48;17
Ron Zappolo
Did you read Terry Pluto's book? Of course. Yeah. Did you think did that help, like, in your mind? Say we got to do something on film to make this come to life?
00;27;48;19 - 00;28;08;26
George Karl
A little bit, but I think my my feeling was especially once I got into it, guys like Jimmy Jones and guys like Mac Coleman, Willie was, Melvin, you look at these guys are.
00;28;08;29 - 00;28;09;15
Tom Green
Oh.
00;28;09;18 - 00;28;21;21
George Karl
They're soulful guys. Sure. And then you find a story like Spencer Haywood where he came from. Jimmy Jones.
00;28;21;24 - 00;28;36;12
George Karl
Never going through. He was never going to a school that a white percent sure. I mean, the stories are very familiar. And then knowing how good they were on the court and no one knows about it.
00;28;36;13 - 00;28;43;08
Tom Green
Yeah. You mentioned their soul and that, hence the title of the of the documentary of the project.
00;28;43;10 - 00;28;49;19
George Karl
I think that a lot of that was, you know, that was a time of soul music lovin.
00;28;49;24 - 00;28;50;13
Tom Green
Yeah. Yeah.
00;28;50;16 - 00;29;02;11
George Karl
And we were, we were in the NBA guys had the afros and had the clothes. Yeah. What colors? Larry Brown dressing up. Yeah. We had a lot of a lot of interest.
00;29;02;18 - 00;29;06;29
Woody Paige
Yeah. Artist Gilmore, for instance, had the world's largest afro.
00;29;06;29 - 00;29;07;28
Tom Green
Darnell Hillman, like.
00;29;07;28 - 00;29;09;00
Ron Zappolo
Darnell.
00;29;09;03 - 00;29;09;19
George Karl
Gardner.
00;29;09;21 - 00;29;28;16
Woody Paige
And and I was on a show with artist Gilmore in the last six months, and I said, what does your hair look like now? He said, I don't have any hair. I said, I can't picture that in my mind because artist Gilmore and you're right, Darnell Hillman were in the whatever you want to say about the first, because it would be a slam dunk contest.
00;29;28;16 - 00;29;37;00
Woody Paige
It wouldn't be three point contest, because that was something Carl Scheer did in Denver in the ABA All-Star game and had Glen Campbell then.
00;29;37;00 - 00;29;42;26
Tom Green
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And turned into his like 24 hours where.
00;29;42;27 - 00;29;45;01
George Karl
Willie Nelson on his hands on year one year.
00;29;45;08 - 00;29;57;09
Woody Paige
So yeah, it's all All-Star game. That's the first time I met Willie Nelson and he was just working at local bars and stuff, and they brought him out to to do the halftime show. And you go in 1976.
00;29;57;11 - 00;30;17;28
Tom Green
You're with the Spurs, you're playing the ABA's drawing to a close. You're on one of the four teams that's going to make the ride over to the NBA. The All-Star game happens. The Slam Dunk contest happens. It's all coming to a head. The end of the ABA. I think of the guys because four teams get absorbed into the NBA.
00;30;17;28 - 00;30;36;18
Tom Green
There's a bit of a draft for the other players, but I bet you there some ABA players who fell by the wayside, whether for their behavior, the way they carried themselves or, you know, the NBA was still stuck up at the time. Any of those guys pop into your head because the NBA fans never got to see the real wise.
00;30;36;21 - 00;30;46;10
George Karl
And when you, the NBA had the greatest draft in the history of basketball, they inherited, I think 36 starters.
00;30;46;13 - 00;30;47;13
Tom Green
Yeah, yeah.
00;30;47;15 - 00;30;55;26
George Karl
7 or 8 All-Stars and 2 or 3 or higher Hall of Fame coaches. But minor merger.
00;30;55;29 - 00;31;03;04
George Karl
And unfortunately he wrote no, no. But the merger was like we paid to get in the league.
00;31;03;07 - 00;31;04;00
Tom Green
Yeah.
00;31;04;03 - 00;31;15;01
George Karl
I mean it was it was not a fair deal. The NBA knew we had to come and they were there. And they also knew they had to get Julius.
00;31;15;03 - 00;31;15;23
Tom Green
Yeah.
00;31;15;25 - 00;31;46;03
George Karl
And Julius was our yep. Our guy, our guy that every buyer wanted. And again I don't know how much you know Julius, but our our our I am our Jackie Robinson, the great Joe Wright for what he did. But I also Marjorie serving for him integrating the game in a different way was integrated in the 50s, but it was really integrating in 1976.
00;31;46;05 - 00;31;57;29
Tom Green
Did you go into the NBA and say, this is great, the NBA, this is so much better because I've heard others say they the ABA players, they went to the NBA and they went out of the this is this, this is it's bad.
00;31;58;06 - 00;32;12;03
George Karl
This is trash, right? You remind me of my first year, in the NBA. And I was I had no problems before that. I ripped it up. I think the first week of the NBA.
00;32;12;06 - 00;32;35;19
George Karl
But, you know, I said the NBA teams were one two years without injury. And in San Antonio, we were in them. Eastern Conference finals, 7770, in as one year or two years out there, we have a ten point lead. What term tomorrow's going not fuck the law.
00;32;35;20 - 00;32;42;22
Tom Green
Against the bulls and against the against Washington. I don't know why that might but oh.
00;32;42;26 - 00;32;47;20
George Karl
Does it all right. All goes. I got your honor and words of wisdom for it all said.
00;32;47;23 - 00;32;50;07
Tom Green
Don't fucking lie.
00;32;50;09 - 00;32;53;29
Ron Zappolo
You said you wanted to be a coach even after playing for Doug.
00;32;54;05 - 00;32;55;00
Tom Green
Well, you figured if he could.
00;32;55;00 - 00;32;57;09
Ron Zappolo
Do it, if he could do it. Anybody?
00;32;57;11 - 00;33;02;11
George Karl
I know there's a lot of them down there and a lot of ways ahead of his time.
00;33;02;12 - 00;33;03;14
Ron Zappolo
Way ahead of his time.
00;33;03;15 - 00;33;04;27
Tom Green
Where you said.
00;33;05;02 - 00;33;11;12
George Karl
Yeah, now there are a lot of things. You probably should've been a little more intelligent in there. Well, but you have good players.
00;33;11;12 - 00;33;12;16
Tom Green
You can get away with that.
00;33;12;18 - 00;33;39;14
Woody Paige
Larry said. Doug, when they came to the Denver from from Carolina and he sent the out to Scout, who was the opening game. And Doug didn't show back up until just before the game is played. So there wasn't like two days of looking at film that Doug went got. And Larry said, so I said, Doug, good to see the Dallas Mavericks.
00;33;39;14 - 00;33;45;13
Woody Paige
You know, it was. And he said, so give them a report. He said, run the fuckers.
00;33;45;16 - 00;33;48;24
Tom Green
And he said, no, that was Doug.
00;33;48;27 - 00;33;53;18
Ron Zappolo
Yeah. He also said, if you can't beat these guys, you suck.
00;33;53;20 - 00;33;57;05
Tom Green
As a great scout. That was a great coach.
00;33;57;07 - 00;34;19;07
Woody Paige
Going back, though, you were in the spirits of Saint Louis and you were talking about the draft this year. Spirits of Saint Louis. The Saint Louis Hawks had been a great NBA team, if you go back. Yeah. And actually they traded Bill Russell to the Boston Celtics. So Saint Louis without the team because it moved to Atlanta.
00;34;19;07 - 00;34;21;07
Woody Paige
The NBA team of data Lanta Hawks.
00;34;21;12 - 00;34;24;17
Tom Green
If you trade Bill Russell you should have to leave town. Yeah.
00;34;24;19 - 00;34;48;08
Woody Paige
And they got a good player and not a good player. But so anyway the ABA brings in the spirits of Saint Louis. And it's a collection ground for all of the other teams that are going like Memphis that I was covering in Utah. And it gathered up those players you talked about. Moses Malone is now playing for the spirits of Saint Louis.
00;34;48;16 - 00;35;10;06
Woody Paige
And not only that, but their announcer. They said, the announcer wants you to go on at halftime. And I go on and with a kid, I it's like he's 14 years old and he's interviewing me, and he sounds like the most mature guy in the whole world. And that was Bob Costas. Yep. Who was working for the same station that Jack Buck and Harry came out for.
00;35;10;07 - 00;35;10;14
Tom Green
Yeah.
00;35;10;16 - 00;35;13;28
Woody Paige
And I went, this kid's got some talent.
00;35;14;00 - 00;35;35;16
Woody Paige
I'm nobody compared to him. And he. We were at a fight in Las Vegas, and he said we were a couple of kids. And I thought, man, he thinks he's somebody. And he said, I know you've thought he thinks he's somebody for me because he was like 19 or something when they hired him. But the spirits of Saint Louis had one of the greatest teams in history that nobody ever saw.
00;35;35;18 - 00;35;47;27
Woody Paige
I knew Freddie Louis was on that team was a great Moses Malone. And of course, the guy you talked about who got on an airplane and said, I don't want to get on no fucking time machine because, it's.
00;35;47;27 - 00;35;49;09
Tom Green
It's going to.
00;35;49;11 - 00;35;59;13
Woody Paige
Change in time. So he's going from Indy, Saint Louis to Indiana, and it's like it's a 59 minute flight and you're going back. And that's his famous, famous.
00;35;59;13 - 00;36;14;08
Ron Zappolo
It's a great story. And Terry Pluto's Bookman, it's a playoff game and he's nowhere to be seen. And 20 minutes before game time, he comes in with a fur coat, takes it off. He's got his union and says, fellas, never fear news is here.
00;36;14;10 - 00;36;15;10
Tom Green
Right into the starting line.
00;36;15;10 - 00;36;17;01
Ron Zappolo
And they went out and scored 38.
00;36;17;04 - 00;36;20;01
George Karl
Also had I think Maurice Lucas.
00;36;20;01 - 00;36;22;06
Tom Green
Yeah. Wolf. Yeah.
00;36;22;06 - 00;36;25;14
George Karl
And I had a warrior. A guy from the NBA.
00;36;25;19 - 00;36;26;28
Ron Zappolo
Might have been Sly Williams.
00;36;27;00 - 00;36;28;10
George Karl
I wore there was an.
00;36;28;13 - 00;36;45;02
Woody Paige
I fly Williams. Williams was from Austin pee and the people at Austin Peay. Whenever he got the ball, he said, flies open, let's go pee. And that was the most famous cheer I've ever heard in my life.
00;36;45;02 - 00;36;46;10
Tom Green
High moment for the Austin.
00;36;46;10 - 00;37;06;25
Woody Paige
Peay game was he was the greatest shooter. He reminded me of somebody you had on your team. Nuggets team. That was an incredible shooter that you suspended from the playoffs and used to live in the same area where we lived and became one of the great golfers in the history of you don't know who I'm talking about jail.
00;37;06;27 - 00;37;08;20
Tom Green
Jackson. Yeah, yeah.
00;37;08;22 - 00;37;19;11
Woody Paige
He lived right down the street from us in church, and he was learned to play golf, and I'd play with him like. And he said, I'm going to be a professional golfer. And he didn't become professional.
00;37;19;11 - 00;37;20;07
Tom Green
He went back to college.
00;37;20;07 - 00;37;22;00
Woody Paige
But he got to be a college golfer.
00;37;22;00 - 00;37;23;06
Ron Zappolo
You know you coach so many great.
00;37;23;06 - 00;37;25;13
Woody Paige
But he hit fly Williams was an.
00;37;25;13 - 00;37;26;16
George Karl
Earlier.
00;37;26;18 - 00;37;27;13
Tom Green
Jasper.
00;37;27;15 - 00;37;29;00
George Karl
Commercial man.
00;37;29;03 - 00;37;33;29
Ron Zappolo
Who's the best all around player you ever coach. Because I got a name in mind and I wonder if.
00;37;34;01 - 00;37;35;29
George Karl
Oh man you're all right.
00;37;36;01 - 00;37;53;12
Ron Zappolo
I'm thinking Cleveland Golden State Seattle Denver Milwaukee. Short time in Sacramento. Was there one player that stands out to you that said this guy brought it more nights than not, and I depended on him. I leaned on him. I loved coaching him.
00;37;53;15 - 00;37;57;15
George Karl
At different times. I mean, town wise, Gary Payton.
00;37;57;21 - 00;37;58;26
Ron Zappolo
Gary Payton was my.
00;37;59;00 - 00;38;04;07
George Karl
Very opinions. Short cam were probably higher level skill wise.
00;38;04;08 - 00;38;09;21
Ron Zappolo
Did you ever get over that series with Denver? Took a while. I bet it.
00;38;09;21 - 00;38;24;08
Tom Green
Took a while, man. Yeah, I had Dennis on my show a couple weeks ago and we talked about it. It's funny because you look at that nugget lineup and they were the eighth seed for a reason, and they weren't supposed to beat you guys. But when you look back at that team in that lineup, you guys pretty good team.
00;38;24;08 - 00;38;27;05
Tom Green
They just didn't know it yet and they found out a lot of money. So I don't know.
00;38;27;05 - 00;38;39;01
George Karl
I'm I'm again I covered I went back and watched that series watch game five. You know they were really running game time. Yeah yeah we weren't bad. We were wasn't.
00;38;39;03 - 00;38;46;11
Woody Paige
What do you think was the closest? Would it have been the team here that,
00;38;46;14 - 00;38;55;13
Woody Paige
Could have beaten the Lakers except for a couple of mistakes on out of bounds plays. Is that it? Yeah. Seattle.
00;38;55;15 - 00;38;58;28
Tom Green
Are you glad you came over today? Looking at your face?
00;38;58;28 - 00;39;00;28
Ron Zappolo
I'm going to change the subject with him in a minute.
00;39;00;28 - 00;39;23;24
George Karl
So you know but I mean, it is I mean I made a mistake and maybe one on the other one was more that the guy that was our an amazing player and fouled out of the game. Tanner Martin was the guy usually took it out for us and we had Anthony Carter one time. I then Kenyon one time.
00;39;23;27 - 00;39;29;25
George Karl
And people don't give Lamar Odom a lot of credit. He put a lot of more pressure on us.
00;39;29;26 - 00;39;30;16
Tom Green
Long guy.
00;39;30;17 - 00;39;37;17
George Karl
Yeah, that that hurt us. Yeah. And, that was the buzzer. I mean, Sean.
00;39;37;17 - 00;39;40;29
Woody Paige
That that was a tough team that you had a tough you had a,
00;39;41;02 - 00;39;42;14
George Karl
Whether we had.
00;39;42;16 - 00;39;45;03
Woody Paige
Kenyon Martin and and some of those guys.
00;39;45;05 - 00;39;53;00
Woody Paige
Nobody won of food. You remember that New Orleans series? And there were a couple of scrapes in in that series. I remember.
00;39;53;02 - 00;40;14;28
George Karl
Well, you know, I mean, there was a physical. Yes. Yeah. Marcus, clamming was very good. Was really a great reminder of the ball. Good defensive person around the rim. We had a good team.
00;40;15;01 - 00;40;19;07
George Karl
You know, it's. I don't want to I don't want to rehash the negative is what you're saying.
00;40;19;07 - 00;40;45;13
Ron Zappolo
Well, let me try a different tact with you because I've interviewed you a lot of times over the years, and I've never asked you this. One thing I really admire about NBA coaches is that they're not afraid to speak out. Unlike baseball managers or NFL coaches, the NBA coaches, whether it's George Karl, Steve Kerr, Doc Rivers, Stan Van Gundy, they always use their platform to speak out about social issues.
00;40;45;16 - 00;40;56;13
Ron Zappolo
I wanted to ask you what compelled you to be one of the guys leading that charge, and where do you think what's the where do you think the state of our country is in right now?
00;40;56;15 - 00;41;27;14
George Karl
Well, I love the movie coming out at this time because I'm trying to figure out in my mind, and I don't want this, and I'm not judging some people for my Air Force is what's wrong with me. I what is wrong with being woke? What is wrong with having an open heart to try to make everybody's life a little bit better?
00;41;27;17 - 00;42;06;18
George Karl
What happens is the empathy of our country on one side, and now it's turning into whatever hell we're watching in Minnesota right now. It makes me sick, it makes me angry, and I worry I have grandkids, I have older kids, I have a 20, I have a 21 year old. I am almost every generation 40 and 21 and grandkids and I know that historians tell us we're an okay place, that we've gone through this before and we'll get through it.
00;42;06;20 - 00;42;22;29
George Karl
But this is the first time I've felt that way, might not get through it. And so there are a lot of that. I mean, I'm, I'm not I don't crier a lot, but I watch, you know, I'm watch the news at times now and I cry.
00;42;23;01 - 00;42;24;22
Tom Green
It's one of the. Yeah.
00;42;24;24 - 00;42;28;11
George Karl
Can I cry watching what I see on YouTube.
00;42;28;14 - 00;42;51;13
Woody Paige
And we we all agree with most everything you're saying. Do you think that sports is going to help us get through this or not? Even sports can because people say, well, it's the it's the way you can get away from what's going on in society. I don't think you can get away from it, by anything. But sports has always been a factor of.
00;42;51;17 - 00;43;03;29
Woody Paige
You talked about it earlier that when I first took coming in the ABA and people would say to me, they got too many black players, that would be because it was a black.
00;43;03;29 - 00;43;04;22
Tom Green
League, you know.
00;43;04;27 - 00;43;17;15
Woody Paige
And a coach told me, he said to me, I start two black players at home and I can start three on the road.
00;43;17;18 - 00;43;21;20
George Karl
We've heard our stories. We didn't grow. We didn't put a lot of that in the movie, but it's out there.
00;43;21;25 - 00;43;51;01
Woody Paige
And we can, if we have us win later, we can put four black players because it looks like there's 2 or 3 white players. I remember that so distinctly that that was a period of time of adjustment in this country. And as you've talked about, the ABA kind of helped adjust what basketball was all about, unlike anything until the 24 second 24 second clock.
00;43;51;04 - 00;44;23;10
Woody Paige
So made the NBA survive because they were playing boring, lousy, shitty games. And then along comes the ABA with the three pointer that, oh, go wow. And the red, white and blue ball that Larry would take on the road and at least used in warmups to show the NBA players what it looked like. And, just a infusion of talent that you talked about that, that the NBA was struggling to bring in better players.
00;44;23;12 - 00;44;35;10
Woody Paige
And most of that talent was black players. Do you think now that sports can have any effect on what we're going through now?
00;44;35;13 - 00;45;01;29
George Karl
Okay. Unfortunately, I think what bothers me, I think yes, I do. I mean, short sports is still on this game to our fans. It's a release of our anger. It's our ability to come to that and unify behind a team that we love and support that still exists. That's still going on. Well, on the other side.
00;45;02;01 - 00;45;09;07
George Karl
The money of the game. How much money is in sports today?
00;45;09;10 - 00;45;24;00
George Karl
Scares me. And now we're going now on to college. And it's probably not long ago in the high school. I don't think we have much guidance on it, and I. All right. Now, we just had a great football game last night.
00;45;24;00 - 00;45;25;06
Tom Green
Yeah.
00;45;25;08 - 00;45;58;25
George Karl
And I know, I know, there's no more nil and the Super League is coming. I don't know when that super League is going to happen, but I hear in three years I've earned ten years. But. I, I still grew up and I don't ever really remember playing or coaching a game for the money. But I think a lot of players and a lot of coaches, long play and coach for the money.
00;45;59;02 - 00;46;28;19
Tom Green
It's funny because Woody, you referred to it as a period of adjustment, which I think is extremely kind for the late 60s and early 70s when you're talking about, civil rights breaking and Vietnam looming and all those things, that's also the kind of that time frame of the ABA. The ABA comes around at the very, you know, right, is civil rights, is, is, is asking and Vietnam is is changing the way the country was viewing itself.
00;46;28;22 - 00;46;34;14
Tom Green
And, you know, I think the ABA was a subculture still, but it was important.
00;46;34;16 - 00;47;12;13
George Karl
I said that too, when we were making the movie or when we thought about starting to make it and not volunteer mentoring, it was the world of Covid, and I was the first Trump, presidential time. And the anger was starting. Then and reminded me a little Vietnam War times and, and assassinations that happened, with the black white, war, civil rights and and then, you know, our, our, our I love playing with the black player.
00;47;12;16 - 00;47;40;27
George Karl
I love being on my teams in the NBA. There's a camaraderie in the NBA that the NBA never really had in my mind. I mean, morning after in Indiana Pacers mandarins more border guards you know letters bar. We stayed overnight. So a lot of times staying overnight was okay. We can go on to have fun and a lot of times interacted with each other.
00;47;41;00 - 00;47;46;19
George Karl
We just got to more connected. And the NBA.
00;47;46;21 - 00;47;54;16
George Karl
But today's game with, the amount of money that sports has in it now.
00;47;54;18 - 00;47;58;14
George Karl
I don't know if it's as you know, that.
00;47;58;18 - 00;47;59;12
Ron Zappolo
Together.
00;47;59;14 - 00;48;00;29
Tom Green
It forces you to be selfish.
00;48;01;05 - 00;48;29;24
Ron Zappolo
And you make a great point about the money because we're the same age. And I grew up admiring and looking up to Ali, Bill Russell, Kareem, Jim Brown, those guys that got together to support our league. And now with the money, I think we've lost a lot of that. So I appreciate anybody that speaks out because I think today there's too much of hey, you know, I don't want to offend anybody and I've got a lot of money and I'm good.
00;48;30;00 - 00;48;34;28
Ron Zappolo
And I think it takes some balls sometimes to stick up and say, what some of you guys.
00;48;35;00 - 00;48;44;10
George Karl
My family has been taking care of by what I'm saying. But if you're asking me, is money a good leader? I don't think it is.
00;48;44;12 - 00;48;50;11
Tom Green
A while we're talking about money. I should do a couple sponsor things because. Because we're hoping to get paid.
00;48;50;13 - 00;48;52;03
Woody Paige
What a great transition. You go right.
00;48;52;03 - 00;49;11;09
Tom Green
Ahead. You do that. We're going to give George a quick, quick beat here because we want to tell you first about our friends at Furniture Row, because they were the ones who brought in all this fancy nice furniture for us. We're very appreciative of them for being a part of After the Horn, and we thank them for what they do and how they contribute to our show, and also our friends at American Financing.
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Tom Green
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Tom Green
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Speaker 1
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00;49;53;24 - 00;50;00;00
Tom Green
backslash. Green American financing is Colorado's home for home loans.
00;50;00;02 - 00;50;02;23
Tom Green
See well done. Get.
00;50;02;25 - 00;50;16;21
Woody Paige
We haven't gone to the one area I'd like to go to. I told you one story, but I'd play, gin rummy with the players on the plane. There were no charter flights. We were flying in the heat. My.
00;50;16;24 - 00;50;17;24
Tom Green
Yeah.
00;50;17;26 - 00;50;18;29
George Karl
Yeah, right. And.
00;50;18;29 - 00;50;19;16
Tom Green
I.
00;50;19;18 - 00;50;28;10
Woody Paige
I would say to the pilot, I said, do you have to change the tires like once a week? Because we're stopping three different places to go to the Virginia Squires game.
00;50;28;12 - 00;50;30;04
George Karl
So I was, I was.
00;50;30;06 - 00;50;55;02
Woody Paige
I was playing with a player and I missed a flight. I overslept at home. And the next time that the team went on a trip and I'd fly with them all the time, a cab driver showed up at my, condominium and said, Mr. So-and-so sent me for you. And I said, why? He said, well, he said he missed winning 50 bucks on that last trip for you.
00;50;55;04 - 00;51;03;01
Woody Paige
So tired about money, the players will send cabs after the media because they were losing that $25. That's what.
00;51;03;01 - 00;51;12;26
George Karl
Meant. But what's funny is the old aviators. I think they did an NBA tournament. Well, I always miss about doing radio shows and they always gave me a prize.
00;51;12;27 - 00;51;15;24
Tom Green
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00;51;15;27 - 00;51;17;14
George Karl
Favorite singer?
00;51;17;16 - 00;51;17;25
Tom Green
Yeah.
00;51;17;25 - 00;51;19;29
George Karl
Well, they they were there and it was on.
00;51;20;02 - 00;51;20;07
Tom Green
A.
00;51;20;07 - 00;51;21;25
George Karl
Mission. I like the Virgin.
00;51;21;26 - 00;51;24;25
Woody Paige
Yeah I thought about that recently. I said, they don't give you.
00;51;24;26 - 00;51;27;15
Tom Green
What could they give someone now that would interest them.
00;51;27;17 - 00;51;30;07
Woody Paige
But but they'd say here's your coupon for Wendy's.
00;51;30;11 - 00;51;32;21
Tom Green
Oh, you know, whatever. But.
00;51;32;23 - 00;52;01;10
Woody Paige
In all of the research you did and doing, putting it together, is there a moment that just really sticks out with you, whether it's funny or it's, someone dying or whatever, that while you're doing the documentary, you go, man, this is a moment should that should stand in time that this was worth all of this that you went through for the documentary.
00;52;01;13 - 00;52;03;08
Woody Paige
Putting you on the spot.
00;52;03;10 - 00;52;37;01
George Karl
There's a lot of them. I mean, I, I was I was. The dispenser here was a story is a good story. And and everybody should hear here in Denver. Nobody knows what Denver. Denver Rockets year. That the hell out of here is one of the most unbelievable basketball years by anybody in any sport. And where it came from and what happened in his life, why he got from Detroit.
00;52;37;03 - 00;52;42;23
George Karl
It was really intriguing.
00;52;42;25 - 00;53;00;17
George Karl
I'm I'm sure, Sammy, I was just amazed by the sort of mostly the black players and what they had to put up with to be leaders, but now turn into being a foundation of the NBA.
00;53;00;19 - 00;53;12;13
Tom Green
Yeah, there was some discussion a few years ago about the older ABA players being owed different pension payments and things like that from the NBA, and you would think now with the.
00;53;12;16 - 00;53;13;19
George Karl
Sharks about a week ago.
00;53;13;21 - 00;53;31;10
Tom Green
Obviously, the giant bucket that the NBA now takes in comparative to the small pail that used to take in now, that debt, the actual financial debt they owe those ABA players. Do you ever think they made that square? They I knew they came along. Not even close. Yeah.
00;53;31;12 - 00;53;32;28
Ron Zappolo
Chuck, I talked to Chuck Williams.
00;53;33;02 - 00;53;43;05
George Karl
I mean, talking about that there. The reason I'm angry a little bit about the movie or documentary is it was under three years ago.
00;53;43;07 - 00;53;44;10
Tom Green
Right.
00;53;44;12 - 00;54;01;28
George Karl
And in that time we've lost another 9 or 10. Gosh, maybe more. And alumni of the NBA once was 120. Now it's probably closer to 100, maybe even under 100.
00;54;02;00 - 00;54;23;23
George Karl
And yes, there are a lot of guys that don't need to mind, but there are a lot of guys that need the money and that little money. I just got my letter. We get checks every year. Guys get the checks 1st of January. That's a small amount, but it mean it's a meaningful amount to many, many players. Yeah.
00;54;23;26 - 00;54;30;17
George Karl
And when we're talking about billions of dollars.
00;54;30;20 - 00;54;32;07
Tom Green
Come on man they could do.
00;54;32;07 - 00;54;55;09
George Karl
Better because the people got screwed. And when you're talking about the players, it didn't make them right. Those are the guys that didn't get pensions. I mean only guys you got pension was you had to come out of a combination of Ahmad and MBA. I never got.
00;54;55;12 - 00;55;27;03
George Karl
An NBA players pension. I played three years in the NBA and two years now. I'm there for you as a player. Three years in there being an NBA president. Now, the NBA was supposed to take care of those guys, some a better deal than others. And there's a lot of arguing about what should have been done. And you know, I don't want to be ungrateful for what the NBA and the NBA Players Association did.
00;55;27;06 - 00;55;46;17
George Karl
They didn't make any kind gesture. I think it was $25 million or something like that, I think proven better and why it wasn't. I have no idea. But 10% of our dogs are men who will go to NBA. NBA players.
00;55;46;19 - 00;55;56;01
Tom Green
Well, you're not being ungrateful. You're just being honest. Give us one more time the the nuts and bolts, how people find the committee, what it's called, where it'll be when it's coming out.
00;55;56;03 - 00;56;04;26
George Karl
Comes out February 12th. I think that's a Saturday. Amazon will have a game on. You know who's.
00;56;04;27 - 00;56;12;04
Woody Paige
Counting. That is you know whose birthday it is? You just irvings.
00;56;12;06 - 00;56;17;09
Tom Green
I don't know, come on. School pretty good. So Amazon Amazon will show this.
00;56;17;12 - 00;56;17;29
Woody Paige
He was bought.
00;56;17;29 - 00;56;29;26
George Karl
By John Moore. Have a basketball name. And again, I don't know totally. Maybe all just. But. After the game all four episodes of a show.
00;56;29;29 - 00;56;31;15
Tom Green
Okay. And it's called.
00;56;31;15 - 00;56;31;28
Ron Zappolo
On.
00;56;32;01 - 00;56;32;14
George Karl
So.
00;56;32;14 - 00;56;35;14
Tom Green
Far so power got to got to do that.
00;56;35;14 - 00;56;37;12
Ron Zappolo
Yeah. It'll be must see TV.
00;56;37;15 - 00;56;45;17
George Karl
And go on go. And they have they have a big year now Amazon on Amazon and goes so far and Amazon.
00;56;45;17 - 00;56;53;29
Tom Green
So hopefully you can help Amazon because they're struggling right here. So if you could if you can back to that little startup project and get them going.
00;56;54;02 - 00;57;03;06
Woody Paige
So I'm going to add to that story just very quickly. Since Julius was involved in it, that he was born.
00;57;03;09 - 00;57;19;14
Woody Paige
On Washington's birthday. And the nurse said to his mother, you should name your kid George Washington Irving. And she said to the nurse, you name your kid George Washington Irving. I'm naming my kid Julius. That is to me.
00;57;19;14 - 00;57;24;15
Tom Green
I'm going to name him after the people who are in the hospital. Doctor.
00;57;24;17 - 00;57;25;15
Tom Green
Yeah, I know, it's a.
00;57;25;15 - 00;57;29;14
Woody Paige
Shame it didn't go up. There's so many. I want him to grow up to be the doctor.
00;57;29;16 - 00;57;43;00
Ron Zappolo
That Julius hasn't played in. So long, that if you're under the age of 45 years old, you don't really understand how incredible he was.
00;57;43;06 - 00;57;55;05
George Karl
Well, my hope is somewhere along the way, the NBA will accept NBA stats because right now Julius is not in the top ten.
00;57;55;05 - 00;57;56;01
Woody Paige
Is Gasol.
00;57;56;06 - 00;57;56;22
Ron Zappolo
Then.
00;57;56;22 - 00;57;59;28
George Karl
Yeah then I mean Moses more.
00;57;59;29 - 00;58;00;24
Ron Zappolo
Artists.
00;58;00;26 - 00;58;05;13
George Karl
I mean there's so many guys that if you do have average that's true. They're NBA stars.
00;58;05;17 - 00;58;21;26
Tom Green
Yeah. Did you have a ton of footage because that's part of it. People want to see it. They want to see Super John and Special K and all these guys in their in their moments in the ABA. I know, because every year it gets harder to find the great footage.
00;58;21;28 - 00;58;33;02
George Karl
Or, you know, the guy who has the most NBA historical stuff was here in Denver. And usually I'm on show because you're hopeless.
00;58;33;07 - 00;58;36;21
Tom Green
Yeah, yeah, he supports it. He's he's healthy.
00;58;36;23 - 00;58;39;24
Woody Paige
I hope they can't find any because I was.
00;58;39;24 - 00;58;40;08
Ron Zappolo
Probably in.
00;58;40;08 - 00;58;43;24
Woody Paige
It. I was an analyst on ABA games.
00;58;43;24 - 00;58;44;04
Tom Green
There we.
00;58;44;04 - 00;58;58;28
Woody Paige
Go. And I was the worst analyst in the whole world. I remember doing it in Indiana. Memphis game. Indiana had a great team that was as good a team as anybody in the NBA is.
00;58;59;00 - 00;59;10;03
George Karl
Great teams. I mean, there's I run an Indiana and then Utah Jazz jump. I mean, you saw stars jump in there and then.
00;59;10;05 - 00;59;13;27
George Karl
You have the Kentucky Colonels and throw in there. And then you get.
00;59;13;29 - 00;59;14;26
Tom Green
The Denver.
00;59;14;26 - 00;59;15;16
George Karl
And Jewish.
00;59;15;23 - 00;59;16;26
Tom Green
Yeah yeah. Final.
00;59;16;28 - 00;59;25;27
George Karl
Yeah I mean the last 4 or 5 years were on my college basketball. And athletic basketball.
00;59;26;00 - 00;59;42;01
Tom Green
Is fun to watch. I just remember I was growing up in New York and I would watch the Knicks play and the Knicks were were good. But then you'd flip over and watch the nets game and it was like it. Everything got turned up a notch. Everything was faster. The court was smaller. I mean, they were racing up and down.
00;59;42;01 - 00;59;50;06
Tom Green
And to get to watch those nets teams because they were great teams. As the the ABA was drawing to a close, they were fun to see.
00;59;50;08 - 01;00;11;14
Woody Paige
One of the things about financially, Indiana Pacers, if you go into the Pacers, their big sponsor is still Lucas Oil. Yeah they sponsor the big year back then. And the PA announcer when a guy made a three pointer on the Indianapolis Pacers team, he'd say, and that's good for another ten gallons of gasoline.
01;00;11;16 - 01;00;15;00
Tom Green
For their giveaway away mean.
01;00;15;02 - 01;00;31;17
Woody Paige
That's what that's what the players we got. Oh, okay. I got ten gallons of gasoline today. And, you know, gasoline was $0.40 a gallon or something. But that was so funny how they announce that the player for like, a guy hitting a home run could win a suit. In the old days, there were.
01;00;31;18 - 01;00;32;20
Tom Green
Only 3 or 4.
01;00;32;20 - 01;00;33;20
Woody Paige
Three speaking a baseball.
01;00;33;20 - 01;00;34;20
Tom Green
Up in a game most of.
01;00;34;20 - 01;00;41;04
Woody Paige
Those years. You are a great baseball fan and we all are. We grew up as baseball fans. And today is what.
01;00;41;09 - 01;00;42;05
Tom Green
The Hall of Fame.
01;00;42;05 - 01;00;42;26
Woody Paige
Day.
01;00;42;29 - 01;01;00;02
Tom Green
It was going to be announced today. And since you're a Hall of Famer, you know what it takes. I mean, you've got the you've got the credit. Yeah. But, it's interesting, Ron and I and Woody were chatting before you came in about, you know, so Carlos Beltran, Andruw Jones are considered favorites to get in.
01;01;00;02 - 01;01;19;23
Tom Green
And I was like, oh, was it really, you know, okay. Good players. Not I wouldn't they don't make me go Hall of Fame. And I was just wondering your thoughts on because you follow the game so closely. Any, any of those guys or guys who've been missed in the past that stick out to you as far as baseball in the in the Hall.
01;01;19;26 - 01;01;39;00
George Karl
I don't watch excites me as Barry Bonds. I mean, I grew up in Pittsburgh, and Barry Bonds was a great part. I mean, before he got on the juice, he was throw a hell of a basket baseball player. Yeah, maybe the best baseball player I've ever seen. The only weakness I ever saw him. He didn't have an arm.
01;01;39;03 - 01;02;02;06
George Karl
He didn't have a gun from the afternoon. But running the bases, hitting the ball, to the next shoulder. Is it all the little things? I was working to remedy that. And Pete Rose and some of the other. But I know other people are being held back by Roger Clemens.
01;02;02;09 - 01;02;05;20
Woody Paige
You were talking me. He was talking about guys who cheated.
01;02;05;22 - 01;02;06;00
Tom Green
I.
01;02;06;00 - 01;02;25;13
Woody Paige
Kept this because we said, keep it for the show. I have a solution. The NFL and I was on the NFL committee. I'm a Baseball Hall of Fame voter. Heisman Trophy and everything else. The NFL years ago said, let's put in a bunch of guys at once. Remember that?
01;02;25;13 - 01;02;27;11
Tom Green
Yeah. Let's catch up. Yeah, let's.
01;02;27;13 - 01;02;57;03
Woody Paige
We've left out too many guys. Why doesn't baseball? This is my grind, my gears. Why does a baseball say, okay, this year we got Bell training Jones okay. And they're they're good. They're okay. But we're going to have a separate. And they do separate say that we're going to put in everybody that cheated. And I mean either with the what you called the juice or they cheated on the Houston Astros.
01;02;57;03 - 01;03;09;10
Woody Paige
What? Let's just put them in it. Get this fucking thing out of the way. Get it over with. We don't have to go with bonds. And we don't want to go with Rose. We don't have to go with the pitcher, Clemens.
01;03;09;10 - 01;03;09;25
Tom Green
We don't.
01;03;09;27 - 01;03;23;02
Woody Paige
Let's just do this and I don't care if you put it in a fucking room in the back of the Hall of Fame, or put it down the street and say, these are the people that cheated, or somebody put them in.
01;03;23;04 - 01;03;23;20
George Karl
They played.
01;03;23;20 - 01;03;34;15
Woody Paige
The game. They were the top of the Shoeless Joe Jackson. Give me a break. He was. He supposedly cheated. In the World Series, he hit 415.
01;03;34;17 - 01;03;37;21
Tom Green
He had to cheat. He had no shoes.
01;03;37;24 - 01;03;38;01
Woody Paige
Yeah.
01;03;38;01 - 01;03;41;00
Tom Green
So that's my and I'm passionate about that because.
01;03;41;00 - 01;03;44;26
George Karl
I'm doing now because baseball's hot.
01;03;44;29 - 01;03;45;17
Tom Green
Yeah, yeah.
01;03;45;22 - 01;03;46;24
George Karl
This ball has.
01;03;46;25 - 01;03;48;13
Tom Green
Hit a great World Series.
01;03;48;15 - 01;03;50;18
George Karl
Of baseball games from Washington.
01;03;50;18 - 01;03;55;22
Ron Zappolo
I should have put Pete Rose in before he passed away. When you get that many hits, you can put like.
01;03;55;22 - 01;04;18;15
Tom Green
Woody, sit there, homerun leader, you know all those guys are in come. Because it's funny to me, because I, when I see guys like Beltran and Andruw Jones, obviously terrific players, Beltran comes with a little bit of luggage. Sure, he was part of the cheating in the 2017 Astros, but I was thinking like Dale Murphy and Don Mattingly, guys who I've always thought those guys are Hall of Famers.
01;04;18;15 - 01;04;28;26
Tom Green
I've those guys were MVP's. These guys never were MVP's, Beltran or Jones. And it's like, let's get caught up, let's get squared away. Let's figure it out.
01;04;28;29 - 01;04;32;11
Woody Paige
Simple thing okay, we're going to put in 25 guys.
01;04;32;14 - 01;04;43;16
Tom Green
That's the worst voting there ever is though, because that's the one where like, Willie Mays comes up and is not unanimous. And I'm going, okay. Yeah, I didn't you there are a couple guys who didn't think Willie was good enough to get in the Hall of Fame.
01;04;43;16 - 01;04;44;14
Ron Zappolo
I wonder why.
01;04;44;16 - 01;04;44;20
Tom Green
I.
01;04;44;20 - 01;04;49;02
George Karl
Don't I don't think all of them.
01;04;49;05 - 01;04;54;02
George Karl
Basketball here. And I'm sure baseball is too stat oriented.
01;04;54;05 - 01;04;55;16
George Karl
Well, I'm not a guru. Right.
01;04;55;19 - 01;04;56;09
Tom Green
Yeah.
01;04;56;11 - 01;05;07;20
George Karl
What about sir Robert Horry there Bruce Bowling the Nate McMillan the quiet guy that doesn't have numbers. But you just take him off that team. They don't.
01;05;07;20 - 01;05;09;29
Tom Green
Win. They're not any good without the Derrick White.
01;05;10;00 - 01;05;10;17
Ron Zappolo
And you mention.
01;05;10;19 - 01;05;31;17
Woody Paige
Guy Dale Murphy because that was a thing here. He came here needed two home runs to reach 400 home runs. Nicest guy. And where we've talked about nicest guy in the world. I was pulling so much for him to hit two home runs and he couldn't do it. And then they they dumped him in in Houston in a ball because I went to the press conference.
01;05;31;17 - 01;05;43;01
Woody Paige
They were staying in a hotel in the Houston fashion mall Galleria. And I wear this. Thank you. That's absolutely right. And they dumped Dale Murphy and I went.
01;05;43;03 - 01;06;04;21
Woody Paige
The Colorado Rockies could have something here. A guy that hits, it's 400 a home run. But. And yet you would rather dump him like you're going somewhere to win the World Series with that. And I wrote a column about that, and it's what you're talking about. Nobody pays attention to the two. Robert Horry played for more.
01;06;04;23 - 01;06;06;02
Tom Green
Than 77.
01;06;06;02 - 01;06;06;15
George Karl
Gems.
01;06;06;21 - 01;06;12;00
Woody Paige
And he was like glue guy. That incredible. He was he's the guy that you.
01;06;12;03 - 01;06;13;15
George Karl
Just throw in his hands on him.
01;06;13;17 - 01;06;18;21
Tom Green
Yeah. And you, you're a floor burn guy. He did not die. So appreciate those guys.
01;06;18;25 - 01;06;34;26
Woody Paige
Here's what we're going to do you and I. And we're going to include these two guys. They're young younger guys. We're going to fix the in Pro Basketball Hall of Fame. If you want to put in Russian coaches and high school coaches, go ahead and do that for.
01;06;35;01 - 01;06;36;21
George Karl
Anybody.
01;06;36;24 - 01;06;55;19
Woody Paige
That's put in a few guys that actually not people not paying attention to that actually played in the ABA. Let me talk to you about Fly Williams. Let's go. Pete. Let's consider him and baseball. Let's just put in those 25. I don't know where you can put them in the back of a 7-Eleven. I don't care if you put there.
01;06;55;25 - 01;06;58;14
Tom Green
It was John Daley's, the usually down to the Hooters.
01;06;58;16 - 01;07;09;12
Ron Zappolo
It was assistant coaches. There were a lot of great assistant coaches who worked for 20, 30 years on the bench. And they never get recognized. There's no there's no area to recognize.
01;07;09;12 - 01;07;30;04
Woody Paige
What is it? But it's true in football. And I was on the committee and everything. You're not putting, the former brought former Broncos coach in there that took three different teams to the Super Bowl was with three different teams to the Super Bowl. I mean, Dan was.
01;07;30;06 - 01;07;33;28
Tom Green
Well, he was Mr. Football too. Like he did it and he did it all. And he's just.
01;07;34;00 - 01;07;43;05
Woody Paige
They tease that mean he's dead. But they tease his family every year. Go yeah Mike Shanahan's going to get in. He would have gotten in this year. It hadn't been for me.
01;07;43;06 - 01;07;56;27
Tom Green
I worry about that though. They did that with Red Miller in the ring of fame. And it always bugged me that they like waiting for Red to win another game or something. 20 years after he's gone, they don't put him in, they don't put him in. He passed away between when they put him in and when they had the ceremony.
01;07;56;27 - 01;08;19;24
Tom Green
It's like, what are you waiting for? If you want to, don't be quite so provincial or protective of these halls of fame, understand what they're really about. And, you know, these are about fans as much as it is about these brilliant voters, you know, who know more than anyone. You know, sometimes it's about the people who go to these halls of fame or care about them in their heart.
01;08;19;26 - 01;08;43;28
Woody Paige
Yeah. And that's I, I agree with the people who say, well, media shouldn't be choosing the Pro Football Hall of Fame, and I agree with them. I said, let's bring in one media guy from every city and the cities that don't have football anymore, like Saint Louis. Let's bring in one former player and one fan that's been around for, you know, 30 years.
01;08;44;00 - 01;08;46;19
Woody Paige
Let's do it that way. Don't put it on the media. Don't put.
01;08;46;19 - 01;08;48;22
Tom Green
It on all old.
01;08;48;29 - 01;08;51;15
Woody Paige
Coaches. No offense.
01;08;51;17 - 01;08;51;21
Tom Green
We're.
01;08;51;25 - 01;08;56;25
George Karl
Talking about all the coaches losing his influence.
01;08;56;27 - 01;08;59;26
Tom Green
In what way? What would you say?
01;08;59;28 - 01;09;02;26
George Karl
Well, I think, you know, in more than one way, he was.
01;09;02;26 - 01;09;10;17
Tom Green
All right. Well, I mean, you said it's losing its influence, like with the present player or with the what happened in the game.
01;09;10;19 - 01;09;10;28
George Karl
I think.
01;09;10;29 - 01;09;12;23
Tom Green
Money, you know.
01;09;12;25 - 01;09;26;07
George Karl
Asians off to court activities. Distraction. I just don't have as much influence. And, decision making.
01;09;26;07 - 01;09;44;21
Woody Paige
But do you? You left out one. What about ownership? That's. We're seeing it in football. The guy coaches the Buffalo Bills and has gotten him to six straight playoffs. And they dumped his butt yesterday. Guess what? They dumped you on the same year you were coach of the year?
01;09;44;23 - 01;09;45;10
Tom Green
Thank you. Hello.
01;09;45;10 - 01;09;47;00
George Karl
Remarkable. But that's right.
01;09;47;03 - 01;09;48;00
Tom Green
Yeah, I think.
01;09;48;00 - 01;09;49;14
George Karl
You're on the wrong side.
01;09;49;15 - 01;09;50;01
Tom Green
Coaches.
01;09;50;04 - 01;10;01;03
Ron Zappolo
Yeah, but you're right. Any time the players make 40 times what the coach makes, it's hard. It's hard for the coach. Other than minutes to have any meaningful control.
01;10;01;03 - 01;10;14;19
George Karl
Over the players. I mean, broad shoulders always said, you know, if you want me to talk to me all and let me buy the groceries, my own head coaches want the responsible in your mind, the groceries anymore. But they.
01;10;14;22 - 01;10;15;21
George Karl
It's probably my fault.
01;10;15;25 - 01;10;16;20
Tom Green
So that's all right.
01;10;16;27 - 01;10;18;00
Ron Zappolo
You've been here a long time.
01;10;18;00 - 01;10;21;04
Woody Paige
Someone. Someone wants you to come home and get the groceries home.
01;10;21;07 - 01;10;46;11
George Karl
So I read the living room sounder is. I don't think you can cut the couch out. Yeah, well, I think I'll tell you. One of my nightmares is, What I'm watch is a I stuff, and I read about robots. What's the first thing a mirror plays? Sports is coaching. Someone might be able to program a robot.
01;10;46;14 - 01;10;47;04
Ron Zappolo
To.
01;10;47;06 - 01;10;47;28
George Karl
A coach.
01;10;47;28 - 01;10;50;23
Tom Green
Just read analysis. Yeah, just just wouldn't it be.
01;10;50;27 - 01;10;55;11
Woody Paige
Wouldn't it be better, though, that you have a woman coach before you have a robot coach.
01;10;55;14 - 01;10;57;05
Tom Green
That there's obviously. Yes, there's a.
01;10;57;05 - 01;11;00;22
Woody Paige
Woman that played in Colorado that could coach in.
01;11;00;25 - 01;11;06;20
Ron Zappolo
You know that. But aren't you glad you coach before the era of analytics?
01;11;06;23 - 01;11;07;26
Tom Green
Because you could actually.
01;11;07;29 - 01;11;10;04
Ron Zappolo
You could actually look out at the court and see the.
01;11;10;04 - 01;11;13;21
Tom Green
Game. You know, analytics is good. It's valuable.
01;11;13;23 - 01;11;15;12
Tom Green
If used properly. Yeah.
01;11;15;13 - 01;11;28;05
George Karl
I learned my last few years, I was analytically correct the way we played layups and threes and,
01;11;28;07 - 01;11;30;19
George Karl
But again, our analysts aren't going to go away.
01;11;30;26 - 01;11;31;16
Tom Green
No.
01;11;31;18 - 01;11;58;22
Ron Zappolo
But the problem with the analytics is simple. If if a guy is throwing a shutout in a World Series through six innings and the analytics guys say, don't let him face the lineup a third time, so they take him out and bring in the reliever and lose the game, which happened with Tampa Bay in the Dodgers. It's bad if you're coaching an NBA guy and the analytics says don't play him over 30 minutes, but you're watching the game and the guy's just killing whoever it is.
01;11;58;24 - 01;12;01;08
Ron Zappolo
You're going to go with what you see on the floor.
01;12;01;08 - 01;12;09;19
George Karl
No, I mean permanent stuff. That drives me crazy because and now we got load management and.
01;12;09;22 - 01;12;10;07
Tom Green
You know.
01;12;10;10 - 01;12;14;29
George Karl
We have so many bad NBA games because nobody's playing.
01;12;15;05 - 01;12;16;07
Tom Green
No.
01;12;16;10 - 01;12;26;15
Woody Paige
I have to ask you, since I'm such an asshole, are you and Carmelo ever going to get back together? Do you think?
01;12;26;17 - 01;12;28;25
Woody Paige
I trust you've tried to bury that hat.
01;12;28;27 - 01;12;43;24
George Karl
I have no problem along online. QAnon didn't back together. I have no problem with it. I'm just 20 years ago. You want a little al love basketball games. Denver Nuggets, and man.
01;12;43;26 - 01;12;58;05
Woody Paige
Does he belong in a there's a there's that. Now question about the number 15. Well the Denver Nuggets Denver Broncos have two guys that wore the same uniform. So I think you can.
01;12;58;08 - 01;13;05;10
Tom Green
Oh we're going to be tricky though. If you all could play five more years. And just like shatters everything they've to consider.
01;13;05;13 - 01;13;11;09
Ron Zappolo
It's not tricky Nikola Jokic is everything he's done Anthony was not yeah.
01;13;11;12 - 01;13;35;25
George Karl
And you know as a coach I I and I think I did a lot of great things for Melo but not great. And some things maybe a little better a little different. And that maybe push them further in a good direction. But it's a great player and I have a lot of respect for that. And I know.
01;13;35;27 - 01;13;46;04
George Karl
I was on the phone with a couple college coaches this morning before I came here, about how hard it is to score. Well Melo main scoring is.
01;13;46;06 - 01;13;47;07
Tom Green
Yeah he.
01;13;47;07 - 01;13;47;15
Ron Zappolo
Did.
01;13;47;22 - 01;13;55;10
George Karl
I mean Melo was a scoring machine. And as a coach I like balance I like I probably like the defense a.
01;13;55;10 - 01;13;57;10
Ron Zappolo
Little bit more. I mean we haven't played the other side of the.
01;13;57;10 - 01;13;58;08
Tom Green
Four two maybe.
01;13;58;08 - 01;14;04;06
George Karl
But I do respect. Oh what George Gervin made on offense. Is he.
01;14;04;09 - 01;14;05;03
Tom Green
Look easy. Yeah.
01;14;05;04 - 01;14;16;22
George Karl
So I mean the man the man was unbelievable. I mean Birmingham will go 16 for 18 games and never miss. And.
01;14;16;24 - 01;14;20;28
George Karl
I know garbage in the Hall of Fame but no one knows how good he was.
01;14;21;00 - 01;14;21;09
Tom Green
Yeah.
01;14;21;09 - 01;14;36;28
George Karl
No no no no no one understands how good Spencer Haywood was here or Connie Hawkins early in his career. A slow recovery in there. Look very he has some of his best basketball in the NBA maybe.
01;14;37;02 - 01;14;43;05
Woody Paige
And Gervin gave ice a great name. The great man Danny George.
01;14;43;07 - 01;14;59;23
Tom Green
We're all looking forward to the documentary Soul Power February 12th on Amazon. I know you put a lot of heart and soul your work into it. I can't wait to see it. But I really appreciate we all appreciate you all taking the time to come here and chat with us. It's really been fun.
01;14;59;26 - 01;15;01;15
George Karl
Call me in an hour. No, no, no.
01;15;01;15 - 01;15;03;15
Tom Green
I don't have a lot on my.
01;15;03;15 - 01;15;04;24
George Karl
Calendar.
01;15;04;27 - 01;15;07;11
Tom Green
Just down the road. Well,
01;15;07;13 - 01;15;10;26
Woody Paige
Let's see, we could. If you'd like to do this every Tuesday.
01;15;11;01 - 01;15;12;20
Tom Green
Yeah, we can get.
01;15;12;26 - 01;15;14;10
Woody Paige
Rid of one of us. Yeah.
01;15;14;13 - 01;15;15;03
Ron Zappolo
I mean to.
01;15;15;05 - 01;15;25;24
Tom Green
Yeah. You know what? The. With the money we make, it's a tax. If it really gets a punishing tax bracket, we go into George Karl the Hall of Famer. Thanks for joining us here on After the Horn.
01;15;25;25 - 01;15;28;06
Ron Zappolo
Thanks George. Great to see you guys.
01;15;28;09 - 01;15;39;01
Tom Green
That was fantastic. And for you out there, if you ever want to reach out to us you can always find us at at at gorilla Sportsnet. Hope you enjoyed it. Hope to see you back here again next week.