The After the Horn crew reacts to the Broncos’ stunning loss to Jacksonville and looks ahead to a bizarre Thursday night matchup in Kansas City, where the Chiefs’ motivation and weather add to the uncertainty. Tom Green, Woody Paige, and Ron Zappolo debate Bo Nix’s inconsistency, Sean Payton’s play-calling, and whether Denver’s defense is being figured out at the wrong time. The conversation also dives into Arrowhead’s brutal conditions, the Chiefs’ potential stadium move, and why the upcoming Chargers game looms as the real AFC turning point.
From trap games and turnovers to trick plays that don’t quite work, the guys break down what went wrong for the Broncos and what needs fixing fast. The discussion expands into the larger NFL picture, including inconsistent officiating, replay controversies, gambling’s influence on perception, and why fans’ behavior toward players is becoming a league-wide issue. The episode also features reflections on the new John Elway documentary, Arrowhead Stadium’s legendary home-field advantage, and where the Broncos and Chiefs could be headed over the next decade.
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Furniture provided by Furniture Row.
00;00;00;14 - 00;00;29;23
Tom Green
Melly. Clicky mocha. It's a tropical Christmas in Denver right now. The Broncos have a short week. They're getting ready to take on the soon to be Wyandotte County, Kansas Chiefs.
00;00;29;26 - 00;00;53;22
Tom Green
All right, here we go. Welcome to a Christmas edition of After the Horn with Ron's Apollo and Woody Page and our new furniture fellows. This is our new stuff from Furniture Row course. Furniture Row, long well known in Colorado in the Denver market for providing great selection, great value. And now they've also provided us with great chairs, great coffee tables, and a whole new set for us here on After the Horn.
00;00;53;22 - 00;00;54;05
Tom Green
Pretty nice.
00;00;54;05 - 00;00;55;29
Ron Zappolo
Nice very very nice.
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Woody Paige
I love the furniture. I think my entire condo is full of.
00;01;03;03 - 00;01;18;28
Tom Green
You're full of it and your condo is full of Furniture row. All right, fellas, we got to talk about what happened with the Broncos this week. They'd been rolling, so had the Jacksonville Jaguars. The Jaguars are still rolling. The Broncos are wondering what truck hit them on the way through Denver.
00;01;19;01 - 00;01;48;19
Woody Paige
The, I was surprised that Ron didn't have that that score and that result because he's always looking for trap games, aren't you? And that was a trap game because I got into trouble 28 years ago talking about Jacksonville. Guess who got in trouble before this game. And that was the coach of the Dirocco saying, well, they're doing nicely for a small market team.
00;01;48;22 - 00;01;58;11
Woody Paige
That was that was that was what really according to people from Jacksonville inspired the team to do so well, William.
00;01;58;16 - 00;01;58;24
Tom Green
Oh, what.
00;01;58;26 - 00;02;04;12
Woody Paige
A difference in the game. But, they just totally dominated the Broncos as far as I was concerned.
00;02;04;16 - 00;02;26;02
Ron Zappolo
I had a couple takeaways. Trevor Lawrence has arrived. Yeah, it took a long time for him to get there because I remember what we all thought about him when he came out of Clemson. It took a while, took a few coaches. He's got the right coach. He's arrived. My two other takes on the game, the Bronco defense doesn't force enough turnovers and that's a problem.
00;02;26;04 - 00;02;44;23
Ron Zappolo
That's a big problem. The second problem, and I don't want to be critical of Bo Nix, but you just don't know what you're going to get from him. It might be great and it might be like we saw the other day. And that's hard to win consistently when you don't know what the quarterback's going to do.
00;02;45;00 - 00;03;03;15
Woody Paige
I always felt like when you went to McDonald's that there was going to be a surprise and a Happy Meal, and it could go either way. It might be a little card or some opening Cracker Jacks, and you go, oh man, I this is the time when I really wanted a baseball card of Hank Garrett's. And you're absolutely right.
00;03;03;21 - 00;03;08;26
Woody Paige
Bo Nix is like a surprise. You don't know what you're going to get. The bad Bo or the good.
00;03;08;26 - 00;03;11;04
Ron Zappolo
Bo and the good Bo's good, but.
00;03;11;04 - 00;03;19;18
Tom Green
So if the bad Bo's playing and you're averaging 6 or 7 yards a carry, why don't you run it more than 12 times? I mean, why don't you?
00;03;19;20 - 00;03;25;04
Ron Zappolo
I think we've been over this before, Tom. I think and again, not to be critical of Sean Payton.
00;03;25;08 - 00;03;25;22
Woody Paige
Why not?
00;03;25;28 - 00;03;36;00
Ron Zappolo
Because he goes because he's 12 and three and he's in the conversation for coach of the year. However, I don't think he wants to run the ball.
00;03;36;05 - 00;03;37;03
Tom Green
Bothers him.
00;03;37;05 - 00;03;44;04
Ron Zappolo
Yes he wants to win his way. So he wants the nickname that a former Bronco coach had here the mastermind.
00;03;44;04 - 00;03;46;18
Tom Green
Yes. So I got to ask you, though, because by.
00;03;46;21 - 00;03;56;28
Woody Paige
Nearly every he's goes brain dead. He does. You go from mastermind to brain dead that he did another one of those plays where there was a trick play.
00;03;56;28 - 00;04;12;19
Tom Green
But that's what I want to ask you about because he he loves the genius of the trick play. And you watch some teams when you watch the Lions or the Rams or the Chiefs for many years run a trick play, it looks like they've got it all figured out and they've done it 100 times and it looks great.
00;04;12;19 - 00;04;17;09
Tom Green
And when the Broncos do it, it looks like you know, what are we doing here? Unless they came close on this one.
00;04;17;09 - 00;04;25;22
Ron Zappolo
Sometimes the best trick play is to do it. Mike Tomlin did the other day when the running back runs for 50 yards for a touchdown. Keep giving him.
00;04;25;22 - 00;04;26;12
Tom Green
The ball.
00;04;26;14 - 00;04;29;25
Ron Zappolo
Because he keeps going for touchdowns. It's a good trick play. It works.
00;04;29;28 - 00;04;43;00
Woody Paige
There are two thoughts that I want to follow up on. What you said about the defense not getting, turnovers. That was a big difference in the game. There were two turnovers. Yeah. Created by Bo Nix himself an interception and.
00;04;43;00 - 00;04;44;02
Tom Green
The bad exchange.
00;04;44;03 - 00;04;54;20
Woody Paige
Yeah. And that's so true. But we also saw that team A team has figured out that defense.
00;04;54;22 - 00;04;58;26
Tom Green
Several lay it out. Several teams have. The last month is not our.
00;04;58;29 - 00;05;02;03
Ron Zappolo
Concern going forward.
00;05;02;05 - 00;05;23;04
Woody Paige
I'm not concerned about this weekend. We'll get to that during the course of our shows this week. But I'm concerned about the Chargers game, the Chargers are playing well and people are talking about, well, the Broncos can, yeah, can win the division if the Chargers lose to the Texans with the two good teams playing in a game.
00;05;23;04 - 00;05;24;27
Woody Paige
And I think the Chargers can win.
00;05;24;27 - 00;05;33;05
Tom Green
That is what can you unfold your arms I want to see because I can't take you seriously unless I can see your sweatshirt blinking.
00;05;33;08 - 00;05;34;19
Natasha
There you go. That's better.
00;05;34;22 - 00;05;36;24
Tom Green
Oh my god Santa I know him.
00;05;36;26 - 00;05;41;03
Woody Paige
Very nice. Some of us, including Natasha, we're into the the spirit.
00;05;41;03 - 00;05;43;21
Tom Green
She's got her beautiful Santa sweater on today.
00;05;43;26 - 00;05;47;28
Natasha
More. Bah humbug. We're Christine. Well.
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Speaker 5
At least you're matching it.
00;05;50;04 - 00;05;50;19
Ron Zappolo
We do.
00;05;50;25 - 00;05;51;21
Tom Green
We're the blue boys.
00;05;51;23 - 00;05;52;27
Ron Zappolo
We're the brothers from.
00;05;52;27 - 00;05;53;14
Tom Green
So other.
00;05;53;14 - 00;05;54;02
Ron Zappolo
Mother's.
00;05;54;02 - 00;05;56;04
Tom Green
So the Broncos are going to Kansas City.
00;05;56;05 - 00;05;58;29
Woody Paige
You call me. We could have been the blue man today.
00;05;59;01 - 00;06;00;18
Natasha
You go.
00;06;00;20 - 00;06;05;04
Tom Green
So this is a weird game for the Broncos. Well, I'll say Kansas City.
00;06;05;04 - 00;06;06;15
Ron Zappolo
It's a scrimmage for the Browns.
00;06;06;15 - 00;06;20;02
Tom Green
Well that's the thing though. I mean the Broncos are right now coming off that loss. Coming off the way their defense has struggled a little bit. This is what you want. But a road Thursday night playing the Mystery Chiefs. There's a little smell though.
00;06;20;02 - 00;06;37;07
Ron Zappolo
Again against was it a key malaise. You want a quarterback or Ola Ola Michael all the way Candy or whatever his name is. It's the perfect antidote. The Chiefs last week declared to the nation who we're done. We want to lose.
00;06;37;07 - 00;06;39;20
Tom Green
Yeah, and this is over.
00;06;39;22 - 00;07;09;11
Woody Paige
However, I gotta interrupt you. There's breaking news on that front ice storm in Kansas City. John Elway never performed well in Kansas City throughout his career because of the scheduling of the NFL. It always amaze me. They always play in Kansas City in December. Yeah. Oh, Mark, it's been like 40 games. Have been in Kansas City really in December.
00;07;09;18 - 00;07;20;18
Woody Paige
And it's not snowing. It's going to be an ice storm. So and every time that I've ever gone there and it's been about 40 times for games, it's so cold.
00;07;20;18 - 00;07;20;28
Ron Zappolo
And it's.
00;07;20;28 - 00;07;22;03
Woody Paige
Miserable windy.
00;07;22;06 - 00;07;25;02
Ron Zappolo
Some of the coldest days I ever spent covering the Broncos.
00;07;25;02 - 00;07;38;16
Tom Green
Arrowhead Stadium here in Arrowhead. So but the Broncos, let's just say take the ghost of the Kansas City Chiefs who they're going to see on Thursday night. Take that out of it. The Broncos need to get right and they don't need to you know and this is a game that.
00;07;38;17 - 00;07;39;13
Ron Zappolo
To get right game.
00;07;39;13 - 00;07;50;09
Tom Green
Well they need to get right because they also have the long stretch to get ready for what will likely be their game of the year against the Chargers. That will determine pretty much everything in the AFC.
00;07;50;09 - 00;07;59;06
Ron Zappolo
You think people realize the rank and file Bronco fans that the Broncos could be staring at a wild card playoff game in a few weeks?
00;07;59;08 - 00;08;00;18
Tom Green
Doesn't take long.
00;08;00;20 - 00;08;22;17
Ron Zappolo
I don't think people have grasped that yet. I think there's a feeling in Denver and you guys tell me if I'm wrong, because I could be. There's a feeling in Denver that, yeah, they lost to Jacksonville, but that's a good thing. They won a million in a row and it's Berg. We're the best team in the AFC. They'll blow through these next two weeks and then two home games.
00;08;22;17 - 00;08;25;21
Ron Zappolo
I think that's the feeling in Denver.
00;08;25;23 - 00;08;26;28
Tom Green
That's what they want to feel.
00;08;27;00 - 00;08;31;00
Woody Paige
Yeah keep hearing that. Yeah David well I it's good for them too.
00;08;31;06 - 00;08;33;06
Ron Zappolo
Yeah I hear that too. What is it I look.
00;08;33;06 - 00;08;38;26
Woody Paige
Back on my life and marriages and the people who said to me, well maybe a divorce will be good for.
00;08;38;28 - 00;08;39;03
Ron Zappolo
You.
00;08;39;04 - 00;08;44;01
Woody Paige
I don't know that any of the time that I went into court, divorce court, that it was good.
00;08;44;01 - 00;08;45;13
Ron Zappolo
For me, I will, I'll say.
00;08;45;14 - 00;09;00;16
Woody Paige
God help me with my next relationship. That didn't go any better. I don't think losing a game to Jacksonville at home, a team you could play again in the playoffs and possibly have to play it in Jacksonville. There's nothing good about losing.
00;09;00;16 - 00;09;03;11
Ron Zappolo
No. You know what that does? What do you creates doubt.
00;09;03;14 - 00;09;18;19
Tom Green
Well, especially the way it went I mean it was a very efficient Jacksonville team. And they played dominated the game. They were solid and they were more solid at every turn. Special teams offense, defense than the Broncos. They were the better team on the field at all times, almost all times.
00;09;18;19 - 00;09;34;06
Woody Paige
Through my final statement about Kansas City, because you guys going, wow, this could this could be a great opportunity for them. They're playing on the road on a Thursday night. I do you know how many times that teams win playing on the road. Not often on Thursday.
00;09;34;07 - 00;09;40;03
Tom Green
Usually you're playing a real team though so it'll be funny to see. I know it's interesting to see what Kansas City brings to this.
00;09;40;04 - 00;09;59;12
Woody Paige
I'm just adding on to what you say in regard to, oh, here are the reasons why they win this game, whether the fact that they're going to be loose. This is not like the last game of last season when the Broncos shut them out 38 to nothing. You didn't have Patrick Mahomes in. The game was here. And it wasn't.
00;09;59;14 - 00;10;09;19
Woody Paige
The only good aspect I see of it is that you've got to win after you lost, but also you're going to get that time off before the Chargers game.
00;10;09;26 - 00;10;34;22
Tom Green
They've only got five more tries to to beat the Chiefs in Missouri before the Chiefs make their their move west. They're going Horace Greeley. They're going into Wyandotte County Kansas. And Kansas is going to help them build this new stadium. They're going to donate nearly $2 billion towards the project. Quite a difference from the stadium project here in Denver, where the Broncos are not changing locales.
00;10;34;22 - 00;10;47;19
Tom Green
They're staying in Denver, and the Walton group is going to pay for it. Now. Everyone will end up, you know, you're going to see a bill for it somewhere down the line. But at least they're not asking the public to help build them a stadium as the Chiefs are.
00;10;47;21 - 00;11;00;15
Woody Paige
I actually like the move from a personal standpoint, because you had to go past where I stay at the airport, every time I go out the airport.
00;11;00;15 - 00;11;01;11
Tom Green
In Kansas City, you.
00;11;01;11 - 00;11;16;11
Woody Paige
Go past the speedway on your way for 50 minutes, an hour to get to the stadium from the airport where the officials stay. There also, and it's going to be closer to.
00;11;16;11 - 00;11;17;29
Natasha
The airport.
00;11;18;01 - 00;11;20;05
Woody Paige
Than it then Arrowhead.
00;11;20;05 - 00;11;24;05
Tom Green
Stadium. Do you think this is why the Chiefs did it out of convenience for you to.
00;11;24;07 - 00;11;24;19
Woody Paige
Be in the.
00;11;24;19 - 00;11;27;11
Natasha
Officiating? I think referees.
00;11;27;13 - 00;11;29;07
Tom Green
You know, it's a different deal.
00;11;29;07 - 00;11;53;06
Ron Zappolo
Listen, nobody plays in this city that they're supposed to anymore. The New England Patriots playing Foxboro. The Giants play Jersey jersey I mean it's like anymore the word of the Chargers and Santa Clause and the San Diego Chargers are up. We can go down the list. So to me it's like yeah okay they're moving but they're still the Kansas City Chiefs.
00;11;53;06 - 00;12;03;03
Woody Paige
But have you noticed how many. And I went through it today. How many major league franchises that Missouri has lost.
00;12;03;03 - 00;12;12;02
Tom Green
Yeah yeah. So look at this in a different light. In 2030 the Broncos are scheduled to open their new stadium. And if things go according to plan.
00;12;12;03 - 00;12;13;00
Ron Zappolo
Will all still be.
00;12;13;00 - 00;12;13;22
Natasha
Alive.
00;12;13;24 - 00;12;19;12
Tom Green
Well there's had, but also, if everything's going right, Bo Nix will be their quarterback.
00;12;19;14 - 00;12;20;21
Woody Paige
Yeah I wouldn't.
00;12;20;24 - 00;12;27;06
Ron Zappolo
Lie, I thought laughing. I just had a birthday. I'm my mortality is staring me right in the face.
00;12;27;08 - 00;12;34;18
Woody Paige
Let me give you both some information. The next six years of your life having been there are going to.
00;12;34;18 - 00;12;36;00
Ron Zappolo
Be the worst.
00;12;36;02 - 00;12;38;28
Natasha
I wish this is. That's your Christmas.
00;12;39;01 - 00;12;39;16
Tom Green
Thank you.
00;12;39;16 - 00;12;43;20
Ron Zappolo
That's his Christmas gift to me. Message forward. It's really been five years.
00;12;43;21 - 00;12;47;14
Woody Paige
Oh, you're going to play in two dome stadiums in 30.
00;12;47;15 - 00;13;03;25
Tom Green
And no, here's my deal. So in 30s say the Broncos are playing right. Their schedule, their whole management team, everything's going great. Bo Nix is the quarterback. When they opened a new stadium in 2031, the Chiefs starting quarterback in 2031 might be a sophomore in high school. Right now.
00;13;03;27 - 00;13;05;04
Ron Zappolo
It'll be Patrick Mahomes.
00;13;05;07 - 00;13;06;26
Tom Green
It's five years down the road.
00;13;06;26 - 00;13;11;21
Ron Zappolo
He'll be 35 or 34. Yes, but he made 100 million. It'll be Patrick Mahomes.
00;13;11;22 - 00;13;12;19
Tom Green
He'll be on his 30.
00;13;12;19 - 00;13;14;29
Ron Zappolo
So he like he's not going to quit at 34 years.
00;13;15;02 - 00;13;16;29
Tom Green
That's a long way to project out on.
00;13;17;04 - 00;13;30;01
Ron Zappolo
You know what I'm going to bet you everything we've made on this show that Patrick Mahomes will start chairs. But the chair my chair now the Patrick Mahomes will be starting for them in 20. Wolves at 3131. Yeah he'll be star.
00;13;30;02 - 00;13;39;24
Tom Green
Hey we talk about the Broncos and the Chiefs in the history. And the John Elway documentary dropped last night on Netflix. And it was obviously it's Must-See for any Bronco fan.
00;13;40;01 - 00;13;43;20
Woody Paige
If you if you coupled it with his appearance here.
00;13;43;23 - 00;13;45;18
Tom Green
True. When his visit which by.
00;13;45;18 - 00;13;49;15
Ron Zappolo
The way when he was here I don't remember you saying that he always played like shit in Kansas.
00;13;49;15 - 00;13;49;29
Natasha
City.
00;13;50;05 - 00;13;56;27
Tom Green
I forgot to bring that up. So, but you guys, just watch you.
00;13;56;27 - 00;13;58;10
Natasha
Make it look good.
00;13;58;12 - 00;13;59;13
Woody Paige
They won a game that, you.
00;13;59;13 - 00;14;00;25
Ron Zappolo
Know, I you remember I wasn't.
00;14;00;26 - 00;14;06;14
Woody Paige
There when he didn't play, and I thought he said, man, maybe I'll sit out Kansas City this.
00;14;06;14 - 00;14;07;10
Ron Zappolo
Year. Well.
00;14;07;12 - 00;14;09;05
Tom Green
Looks like the Randy Johnson. It's hard.
00;14;09;11 - 00;14;26;18
Ron Zappolo
There's a couple of things I always thought. And you tell me what you think. That I thought that Arrowhead we went to every stadium in the country. I thought that arrowhead in the NFL, because of the way it was configured, was the best outdoor home field advantage in the NFL story.
00;14;26;18 - 00;14;43;19
Woody Paige
You don't know the architect on the two stadiums, KC Royals and Arrowhead Stadium, was designed by a guy lived in Denver. Have you ever been to the pass the bank that's at, Hampden and Broadway.
00;14;43;19 - 00;14;45;05
Tom Green
Okay, the big mushroom.
00;14;45;07 - 00;14;47;21
Ron Zappolo
The big. Yeah.
00;14;47;23 - 00;15;12;18
Woody Paige
And I'm stronger. He also lived and built the house. That's in the mountains. What's called the sleeper sleeper house. Yeah. And he didn't really have an architectural degree, so he had to hire people to do that. But they signed him. He had never seen a football game. He wasn't a sports fan. And he ended up designing two of the best stadiums that are still.
00;15;12;18 - 00;15;15;11
Ron Zappolo
Well, he had never been up in the house either because that Woody Allen.
00;15;15;11 - 00;15;21;08
Natasha
House is in of crap, a big nice. But that's what I've tried.
00;15;21;08 - 00;15;22;00
Woody Paige
I will.
00;15;22;00 - 00;15;22;25
Natasha
Enjoy that.
00;15;22;26 - 00;15;27;00
Woody Paige
I want I'm going around in circles because that's all that house is.
00;15;27;03 - 00;15;29;18
Tom Green
All I remember is in the movie the orgasmic triumph.
00;15;29;18 - 00;15;31;27
Natasha
So you get it?
00;15;32;00 - 00;15;34;05
Ron Zappolo
How many times, dude, what did you drive Mr..
00;15;34;07 - 00;15;35;08
Woody Paige
Way to get the guys.
00;15;35;11 - 00;15;36;09
Ron Zappolo
Looked up at that house.
00;15;36;09 - 00;15;51;06
Woody Paige
I interviewed him and he said he made every seat in Arrowhead Stadium. He he hadn't been to a football game, but he had been to, fights. Right. And he decided that he was going to have all the seats in both stadiums face.
00;15;51;08 - 00;15;53;19
Tom Green
In midfield or home plate.
00;15;53;22 - 00;16;11;04
Woody Paige
Home plate in the baseball stadium. Yeah. And the 50 yard line in their head. Stadium. And he never stepped foot into either one of the stadiums after he designed them, because the owner of the Royals put those fountains.
00;16;11;04 - 00;16;13;03
Tom Green
That Ewing Kauffman. Yeah, yeah.
00;16;13;04 - 00;16;14;03
Woody Paige
Yeah. And he said, do.
00;16;14;03 - 00;16;19;07
Ron Zappolo
You think that Arrowhead had a great home field advantage? I did, I think clearly it's hard to go in there.
00;16;19;07 - 00;16;20;14
Tom Green
And even when they weren't great.
00;16;20;20 - 00;16;25;12
Ron Zappolo
Even when they weren't great. And Woody's point is correct. The weather always sucked. Every time.
00;16;25;12 - 00;16;26;12
Natasha
We would.
00;16;26;15 - 00;16;28;15
Tom Green
Like to maybe play them in October once.
00;16;28;16 - 00;16;39;00
Ron Zappolo
And it was always cold and windy. And yeah, I remember always saying many times that I can play in the cold, I can play in the snow, I can play in the rain. But the wind.
00;16;39;02 - 00;16;45;19
Woody Paige
John always percentage in games under 40 degrees was not good.
00;16;45;22 - 00;16;48;27
Ron Zappolo
Well, he's a California guy. Yeah. We watched the documentary last.
00;16;49;00 - 00;16;54;17
Tom Green
Well I also the way we should talk about I think. But I think most quarterbacks struggle when it's under 40. Their percentage is going to go down.
00;16;54;19 - 00;16;57;23
Ron Zappolo
I don't I I thought documentary was really well done.
00;16;57;23 - 00;17;14;05
Tom Green
It's terrific. And I would say the the best part of it is for old guys like us who remember it. It's great to travel back and see it all again and see it through his lens. A lens that many people he didn't share with what he was going through or what he felt or how it all played out.
00;17;14;07 - 00;17;17;20
Tom Green
But I also think if you're 25 and you didn't see any.
00;17;17;20 - 00;17;18;23
Ron Zappolo
Of it, it's it's.
00;17;18;24 - 00;17;20;09
Tom Green
It would be a great you.
00;17;20;11 - 00;17;48;14
Ron Zappolo
I now understand what he said here because I remember asking him about why did you do it? And he said, well, I wanted a piece of record for my grandkids. It's better than a book now that I've seen it. I kind of understand that more. And I was taken by how gracious. And I'm not surprised how gracious Janet Elway was in that documentary and how forthcoming his family was about what it was like during that time.
00;17;48;14 - 00;17;53;01
Ron Zappolo
Those, to me were the interviews that touched me the most. I kind of knew with the and.
00;17;53;01 - 00;17;55;28
Tom Green
The clips of those who have passed his father, his twin sister.
00;17;56;00 - 00;17;56;11
Ron Zappolo
And.
00;17;56;13 - 00;17;58;06
Tom Green
Hearing from them. Yes, dad.
00;17;58;09 - 00;17;59;27
Ron Zappolo
Yeah. You know, who played a big role.
00;17;59;27 - 00;18;00;19
Tom Green
Had Bowlen.
00;18;00;19 - 00;18;01;14
Ron Zappolo
Pat Bowlen.
00;18;01;14 - 00;18;03;20
Tom Green
And Ron has a cameo.
00;18;03;23 - 00;18;04;23
Ron Zappolo
Quick cameo there.
00;18;04;25 - 00;18;06;21
Tom Green
Unfortunately, Ron makes and.
00;18;06;21 - 00;18;14;29
Ron Zappolo
I'm sure I'm sure John would say the same thing. You know, when you run a town for a long time, some of that video is very embarrassing.
00;18;15;02 - 00;18;19;06
Tom Green
Well, not your clip. Your clip was just telling him, like, when guys are sold the team.
00;18;19;07 - 00;18;22;29
Ron Zappolo
Yeah, yeah, but he he.
00;18;23;02 - 00;18;40;01
Ron Zappolo
I thought he was totally open in that. I know sometimes when you do one of those things, you do it, but you kind of hold back a little bit. You answer the questions, but you don't give too much. I thought he was, available.
00;18;40;05 - 00;18;41;05
Tom Green
Yeah.
00;18;41;07 - 00;19;08;09
Ron Zappolo
And his emotion was completely real. And the scenes with him and his grandkids kind of touched me the most as a grandfather. How much joy he's playing catch with one of his little grandkids. Yeah. And his kids. He's sitting on the dock and one of his grandsons comes up, says, hey, Poppy, and sits next to him eating. And they don't know that he's John Elway.
00;19;08;09 - 00;19;11;29
Ron Zappolo
They know that he's Poppy. Yeah. And it was very touching the words.
00;19;11;29 - 00;19;13;15
Tom Green
Yeah, definitely worth watching.
00;19;13;17 - 00;19;23;00
Ron Zappolo
And what he went through and and and what, what how difficult it was being in Denver at that time.
00;19;23;00 - 00;19;37;21
Tom Green
Hindsight is amazing because people will look back on that and they go, oh they got oh. And then they, you know, they won some Super Bowls and that was really good. And you think, man, those first two weeks in Pittsburgh and Baltimore I remember those. And losing the starting job and battling Dan Reeves.
00;19;37;21 - 00;19;42;26
Ron Zappolo
And that was another good thing about getting Steve Antonopoulos on there, who we all like.
00;19;42;26 - 00;19;44;14
Tom Green
And the old trainer talking.
00;19;44;14 - 00;19;56;13
Ron Zappolo
About how John just got the shit kicked out of him those early years, you know, and he hung in there and I kind of forgot with the video he did. I mean, he took a lot of them. Well, you.
00;19;56;13 - 00;19;57;13
Tom Green
Were allowed to hit quarterbacks.
00;19;57;13 - 00;19;57;27
Ron Zappolo
You're allowed.
00;19;57;27 - 00;20;00;21
Tom Green
To. We talked about that when John guested with us about.
00;20;00;25 - 00;20;04;10
Ron Zappolo
And the new rules. He took a lot of it. I mean.
00;20;04;13 - 00;20;07;04
Woody Paige
He still holds the record for sacks.
00;20;07;10 - 00;20;09;01
Ron Zappolo
I bet he does it close.
00;20;09;04 - 00;20;14;08
Tom Green
Well, plus he you could just tell he was also not going to you know, they weren't many glancing blow.
00;20;14;08 - 00;20;19;19
Woody Paige
I didn't know how to I didn't know how to write about go a guy lining up behind and all.
00;20;19;23 - 00;20;20;06
Tom Green
They showed.
00;20;20;06 - 00;20;21;05
Ron Zappolo
When they.
00;20;21;07 - 00;20;21;24
Tom Green
Left guard.
00;20;21;25 - 00;20;22;20
Ron Zappolo
They showed it.
00;20;22;23 - 00;20;42;08
Tom Green
Hey we talked about the change in how people officiate the games in the NFL. Had a rough weekend in a lot of ways. So let's talk about the officiating and some of the calls. Obviously, the Lions Steelers game ended with those offensive pass interference calls against the Lions. But there was a myriad of calls that were and weren't made.
00;20;42;10 - 00;20;44;14
Tom Green
It's been that all year long for the National.
00;20;44;14 - 00;21;12;00
Ron Zappolo
Okay, let's start with the Lions game first. Again, I'm watching the game. No dog in the hunt. I always believe the the officials, the great officials let the players determine the outcome. You know, and when one team gets down to the one yard line and they call a pick play and they run the replay, and it's clear that the defensive guy pushes the pick receiver into the other defensive guy.
00;21;12;02 - 00;21;13;25
Ron Zappolo
I don't think you can throw the flag there.
00;21;13;27 - 00;21;14;18
Tom Green
No you can't.
00;21;14;22 - 00;21;29;23
Ron Zappolo
You just they did and they did. And it cost the Lions their season. And that one flag cost the Lions their season and may have cost some people their jobs. That that's a big little thing.
00;21;29;25 - 00;21;32;13
Tom Green
Not the big break for Pittsburgh who continues to.
00;21;32;13 - 00;21;33;01
Ron Zappolo
Continue to.
00;21;33;01 - 00;21;34;02
Tom Green
Get by.
00;21;34;05 - 00;21;36;22
Ron Zappolo
Can I give you the other one that's just more egregious?
00;21;36;22 - 00;21;37;26
Tom Green
Sure.
00;21;37;29 - 00;21;55;23
Ron Zappolo
You can't have a play where they're trying a two point conversion, but Guy throws a pass, the side judge goes incomplete. The other guy blows the whistle. One guy walks over and nonchalantly picks up the football. They go to a commercial. America sits around for two.
00;21;55;23 - 00;21;57;07
Tom Green
Minutes game, decide and come.
00;21;57;07 - 00;22;12;26
Ron Zappolo
Back and to say after replay assist we're going to award the two points. That's that look is so bad. That brings up something we've talked about before, like what is going on with these games.
00;22;12;28 - 00;22;23;10
Tom Green
Well, it's I mean it's always a controversial but this year and maybe it's the way we televise the games now, but the calls seem more egregious. And they, they do now with everyone in the world wagering.
00;22;23;11 - 00;22;38;02
Ron Zappolo
Can we just say, I get how hard it is to officiate the NFL? It is incredibly difficult, but they could do some things to improve it. Well, one of the things hire younger officials, make them full time. You could do some things.
00;22;38;02 - 00;22;39;01
Tom Green
Yeah.
00;22;39;03 - 00;22;59;12
Woody Paige
Over the years I've readjusted my thoughts about officiating in the NFL. And I mentioned earlier about staying at the airport in Kansas City with the officials. And I would not drink with them the night before. One of us would drink and the rest of them would not. But I would talk to them, which was and they watch me on television, and they knew about me in Denver.
00;22;59;15 - 00;23;15;23
Woody Paige
That has nothing to do with this other than the fact that I got to know officials, and I always thought people said you could need full time officials, but these guys were presidents of banks. They were.
00;23;15;26 - 00;23;17;20
Tom Green
Attorneys. Yeah, yeah.
00;23;17;22 - 00;23;44;02
Woody Paige
They had jobs of esteem where they had to be trusted. But I was wrong. They need to hire. They've tried it with some of the younger ones, but they've kind of gone away from that full time officials. Some people say, well, they only work one day a week. Well, no, the ones that are there now work 3 or 4 days a week because they're watching films all the time.
00;23;44;02 - 00;23;53;22
Woody Paige
I think you have to have full time officials. That's number one. Number two, and I'll keep it short. Bill Belichick was right. Years ago. He said you should be able to.
00;23;53;24 - 00;23;54;20
Ron Zappolo
View everything.
00;23;54;20 - 00;23;56;15
Woody Paige
Challenge any play.
00;23;56;15 - 00;23;57;08
Tom Green
Right.
00;23;57;10 - 00;24;01;23
Woody Paige
And that's right. That's correct. And they're trying the eye in the sky kind of.
00;24;01;25 - 00;24;02;11
Tom Green
Replay I.
00;24;02;11 - 00;24;29;14
Woody Paige
Said in the New York office no let teams challenge five times. Baseball. We wanted it to be a shorter game. And so they put in clocks. Nobody cares about how long it the NFL game. But if you're at the stadium, you don't care that you're you know that's your religion. Yeah. You don't mind being there for hours. People watching don't care if the games it really.
00;24;29;16 - 00;24;36;07
Tom Green
But it's it's a matter it's not only the calls they make, it's when they are made that seem so different.
00;24;36;11 - 00;24;48;27
Woody Paige
Right. Go to younger man. I saw play in the Broncos game and the official took off his cap and tossed it in. And I said, that guy's older than me. Yeah.
00;24;48;29 - 00;25;01;08
Woody Paige
And I'm not making fun of bald guys here. I just said, that's an old guy. I can't two of the three of us couldn't officiate no NFL game, no matter how good of shape to wear it.
00;25;01;08 - 00;25;18;09
Ron Zappolo
No way. Which two? Which to hold on for? Well, but you know what? I just a pile onto what he said. I do. We're too old. Those officials should be guys in their 30s and 40s. Yeah. Who are athletic.
00;25;18;09 - 00;25;35;04
Woody Paige
But here's what you do. In baseball, they train guys in the minor leagues. That's difficult, but you can hire full time officials and you can let them do college games. Sure. That. Yeah, while you're training them.
00;25;35;04 - 00;25;40;22
Ron Zappolo
Up to work, pay them and and don't improve. This is $1 billion business.
00;25;40;24 - 00;25;42;01
Tom Green
Well, that's like the thing.
00;25;42;06 - 00;25;42;11
Ron Zappolo
It's.
00;25;42;17 - 00;25;43;11
Woody Paige
It's a ten.
00;25;43;16 - 00;25;45;25
Ron Zappolo
Can it. Yeah. They can afford.
00;25;45;27 - 00;25;58;13
Tom Green
But there are two things that happen when you talk about the $10 billion business that have to do with technology that you could take out of the referee's hands. One is the play clock, which seems to be a vague you know, I sort of got it off right.
00;25;58;14 - 00;26;00;19
Ron Zappolo
Hey, did have to give him a beat. Yeah.
00;26;00;23 - 00;26;01;08
Tom Green
They won.
00;26;01;08 - 00;26;02;28
Woody Paige
Simplify the rules.
00;26;02;28 - 00;26;22;11
Tom Green
Right. But also the placement of the ball. Placement of the ball. You see it in soccer. You see it in tennis where the ball lands matters where it is, you know, in the goal line matters. The yard to gain for a first down matters. And they just kind of run out there for two guys from 25 yards away, come and meet in the middle and go to.
00;26;22;11 - 00;26;23;26
Ron Zappolo
65 year old guy right? Yeah.
00;26;23;26 - 00;26;49;14
Woody Paige
But the NFL rulebook, if you ever glance at it, you can get it online. If you want to see it. Those of you that are concerned about it went from 60 rules to 4000. Yeah, yeah. And it's too complicated for the officials. And once again, they're trying to do the best job they can do. They're either too old like I am or than.
00;26;49;14 - 00;26;49;28
Ron Zappolo
I am.
00;26;50;04 - 00;26;58;23
Woody Paige
Or they're dealing with a rule book that they only totally understand. Nobody still figures out what offensive pass interference is or.
00;26;58;26 - 00;26;59;15
Tom Green
Changes every.
00;26;59;15 - 00;27;06;29
Ron Zappolo
Play. I tell you one thing, I've been watching football my whole life. Covered it forever. I don't know what a completed pass. Yeah.
00;27;07;01 - 00;27;08;00
Tom Green
It made that and do I.
00;27;08;03 - 00;27;08;13
Woody Paige
Don't.
00;27;08;16 - 00;27;09;26
Ron Zappolo
I just don't.
00;27;09;29 - 00;27;22;04
Woody Paige
I'll give you another one. Offensive holding they got on every play. Here's what I wrote once and people thought I was stupid and I am. But I said eliminate offensive. Hold it. Just a little.
00;27;22;05 - 00;27;23;00
Ron Zappolo
Ball. Just let them hold.
00;27;23;01 - 00;27;33;17
Woody Paige
That way you don't have to. Yeah. Because how many times do you see a team, Broncos or anybody else where a play comes back? Because yeah, a guy who wasn't involved in the play.
00;27;33;18 - 00;27;35;12
Ron Zappolo
Was on the other side of the play.
00;27;35;18 - 00;27;45;06
Woody Paige
So that's what I'm talking about. Simplifying fool. Put it at birth. What is the call on defensive holding. What is what.
00;27;45;06 - 00;27;46;12
Tom Green
Is having a first down.
00;27;46;14 - 00;27;48;11
Ron Zappolo
Yeah that's another.
00;27;48;14 - 00;27;57;06
Woody Paige
At the worst. Yeah. At the worst. Make it five yards. And that's what defensive holding is instead of ten yards.
00;27;57;06 - 00;28;30;12
Ron Zappolo
Here's the thing. If it's third and 22 and you chuck one down there and the referee comes out and goes illegal contact five-yard penalty automatic first down. Those all to his point. All these rules back breakers. And the other thing you mentioned. That's a good point. I know in this technology driven world that we live in, you can figure out a way to put a little tiny, little chip on the ball that will always let you know exactly, exactly.
00;28;30;13 - 00;28;31;03
Woody Paige
Do you have a chip.
00;28;31;03 - 00;28;31;12
Ron Zappolo
Where the.
00;28;31;12 - 00;28;32;23
Tom Green
Ball is? But yeah, but.
00;28;32;26 - 00;28;48;25
Ron Zappolo
But here's the problem. Now you see a guy on the goal line. He goes in there, there's 20 guys. So okay. And let's review it. You can't see shit. You don't know if he got in there or not. And they look at it for five minutes and go no, he didn't make it wrong.
00;28;48;28 - 00;28;54;01
Woody Paige
What also has happened is that we used to complain because it was our team.
00;28;54;05 - 00;28;54;29
Ron Zappolo
Yes.
00;28;55;02 - 00;29;05;25
Woody Paige
Fans. Now there's a much bigger problem than that with the officiating. I know that is the money, the gambling, gambling, gambling. Guess what? Played a play there in bed with.
00;29;05;28 - 00;29;06;12
Ron Zappolo
Gambling.
00;29;06;12 - 00;29;29;16
Woody Paige
Websites. There allow gambling. So you've got to make sure that you're getting as much. It will never be 100%, but it can be what we're seeing in baseball. To compare it to that. They are checking replays and they're getting things. Remember that game in baseball where it should have been a no hitter or perfect.
00;29;29;16 - 00;29;30;02
Tom Green
Yeah yeah.
00;29;30;03 - 00;29;31;11
Ron Zappolo
Oh was the Todd.
00;29;31;11 - 00;29;33;13
Tom Green
Galarraga Rondo going Rondo.
00;29;33;13 - 00;29;35;07
Ron Zappolo
Galarraga again I think it was Jim Joyce.
00;29;35;07 - 00;29;36;17
Tom Green
Jim Joyce missed the call.
00;29;36;17 - 00;29;37;23
Ron Zappolo
The first number was stupid.
00;29;37;23 - 00;29;38;25
Woody Paige
I mean how many know.
00;29;38;25 - 00;29;44;12
Ron Zappolo
The problem with baseball though. And again Retirer guy who watches way too much.
00;29;44;15 - 00;29;46;05
Woody Paige
Baseball is we have a team.
00;29;46;12 - 00;30;04;18
Ron Zappolo
We do well I can't okay, the replay is good. I'm somebody who believes in replay in all sports. When a guy steals second. Oh, and they teach the shortstop or second baseman keep the tag on him, even if you think he's safe. Because if he slides.
00;30;04;18 - 00;30;09;18
Natasha
Off the bag by that watch, he's out. He's out.
00;30;09;19 - 00;30;17;19
Ron Zappolo
And we're going to replay it. And he's that's not how the rule was intended. Yeah. And that's what they've done. And it's just wrong.
00;30;17;20 - 00;30;18;08
Tom Green
It's marvelous.
00;30;18;08 - 00;30;23;05
Woody Paige
Once you can fix that easily. What's the guy. The runner.
00;30;23;05 - 00;30;23;22
Ron Zappolo
Is safe.
00;30;23;23 - 00;30;25;04
Woody Paige
Touches the base.
00;30;25;04 - 00;30;25;19
Ron Zappolo
He's safe.
00;30;25;19 - 00;30;26;18
Woody Paige
That's the end of the point.
00;30;26;19 - 00;30;28;28
Tom Green
I fully over slides or some silly.
00;30;28;28 - 00;30;33;21
Ron Zappolo
Unless he's like, slides two feet off the bag. He's right. Once he's safe, he beats the throw.
00;30;33;22 - 00;30;34;07
Tom Green
Plays over.
00;30;34;07 - 00;30;56;08
Ron Zappolo
He's safe. The other thing that bothers me again, as a retired guy who watches way too much sports, I love the NBA. I've got the NBA League pass. I watch a lot of games. This stuff where in the last two minutes, oh, we got a replay every out-of-bounds play. That's number one. Number two, three of them. Look at it.
00;30;56;11 - 00;30;59;24
Ron Zappolo
Then one of them looks at it. Then three of them look at it.
00;30;59;25 - 00;31;01;05
Tom Green
They just tumble.
00;31;01;05 - 00;31;11;26
Ron Zappolo
Then they huddle. Then one guy goes back and looks at it again. Eight minutes later, after review, it's off the New Orleans Pelicans Oklahoma City ball.
00;31;11;26 - 00;31;13;09
Tom Green
Where's Ben Rudolph.
00;31;13;12 - 00;31;32;06
Ron Zappolo
Is Darryl Garretson and Mindy Rudolph to say it's your ball. You know what players used to tell me too. This is back in the 80s when I thought the NBA had the best referees they've ever had. And I remember Doug saying this and other people and you probably know this too. They said Earl Strom could ref a game by himself.
00;31;32;06 - 00;31;53;22
Ron Zappolo
Yeah. He didn't need anybody else because all the players respected him. He knew what to call. He gave you a fair shake on the road and he warns you, get off him or I'm going to have to call it. And everybody respected him. Now they have no respect. Nameless people, nameless, faceless people. They argue every call. It's a different world.
00;31;53;25 - 00;31;58;26
Woody Paige
Yeah. And and and the players no longer have respect for their coach. They just walk off.
00;31;58;26 - 00;31;59;23
Ron Zappolo
They just walk off.
00;31;59;29 - 00;32;18;00
Tom Green
Well we're going to talk about Draymond. When I talk about disrespect though. Let's go back to the NFL because this the officials didn't see this. But the NFL sure did. So did America deep DK Metcalf getting into it with a fan. And he's got it currently as it stands a two game suspension.
00;32;18;02 - 00;32;36;05
Woody Paige
Do you know how many times when I've been at NBA games, the Denver Nuggets specifically, that people have yelled stuff at me that my mother wouldn't appreciate, I didn't appreciate, and how many times that I went and slugged them.
00;32;36;08 - 00;32;37;05
Ron Zappolo
You may have wanted.
00;32;37;06 - 00;32;55;08
Woody Paige
You know what would have happened to me? I would have lost my job. It doesn't matter honestly what fans say. True that. You just have to let it roll over you because you chose to be in the business where it's possible. Fan might say something about your mother.
00;32;55;11 - 00;33;15;08
Tom Green
I remember the old Mile High stadium that that chain link fence was about five feet tall between the players and the fans. And I remember fans just screaming stuff, and I'm going, you're screaming the rudest things at some six foot, six inch, 280 pound guy. Well, because there's this little chain link fence that defines that. You can't.
00;33;15;10 - 00;33;20;24
Woody Paige
You touch you guys, we're here. A Raiders player went into the stands.
00;33;20;27 - 00;33;23;01
Ron Zappolo
Can I slightly disagree with Woody?
00;33;23;01 - 00;33;24;15
Tom Green
Yes, of course.
00;33;24;17 - 00;33;34;15
Ron Zappolo
I'm totally in agreement with him because I've been in this too. I've been yelled at and I've been booed in arenas, yelled that, told a lot of things about stuff.
00;33;34;18 - 00;33;37;09
Woody Paige
I was booed did green.
00;33;37;11 - 00;34;08;20
Ron Zappolo
I never had a racial slur hurled my way. Yeah, okay. And I think one of the problems that we have in sports right now, and it's a big problem, is that fans feel that they're a part of the action. Yeah. They're not. And if you go talk to Russell Westbrook and if he's standing on the side of the court and a guy five yards away from him hurls, which is also an insult his way, I'm going to disagree.
00;34;08;23 - 00;34;30;11
Ron Zappolo
I want to in that right away. And if I'm Russell Westbrook I know how I want to end it. And I'm not defending DK Metcalf because I think he has a history of this stuff. I don't know what that guy said, but I got an idea. And you know what we got to get some discourse in this country where you're not allowed to walk up to anybody and say any damn thing you.
00;34;30;11 - 00;34;31;14
Tom Green
Want just because and.
00;34;31;14 - 00;34;33;17
Ron Zappolo
Think that you can get away with it. Yeah.
00;34;33;18 - 00;34;34;27
Tom Green
It's wrong. They can on.
00;34;34;27 - 00;34;42;09
Ron Zappolo
Twitter. And you know, if you call in, you say to DK Metcalf, you suck, you're terrible. Fine.
00;34;42;12 - 00;34;43;11
Tom Green
So this is the there's.
00;34;43;11 - 00;34;51;08
Ron Zappolo
Some things to certain people. You can't say. And if you do, you should suffer the consequences.
00;34;51;11 - 00;34;52;07
Tom Green
Which you get. Yeah.
00;34;52;11 - 00;34;55;24
Woody Paige
Which is I'd hate to be your neighbor. Are you? And you're.
00;34;55;24 - 00;34;56;23
Ron Zappolo
My neighbor.
00;34;56;25 - 00;35;01;00
Woody Paige
Yeah. I was your neighbor. But you weren't saying to me all the time, get off my lawn.
00;35;01;00 - 00;35;18;05
Ron Zappolo
No, we didn't have lawns. Can I tell you one quick story about that? I'll make it real fast. I'm in Detroit for an avalanche Red wing playoff game, and I in the morning, I go to Claude Lemieux and I go, I need somebody at like 520. I know it's like 15 minutes before can you come out? He was great.
00;35;18;05 - 00;35;38;02
Ron Zappolo
He goes, come to the portal outside the dressing room. I'll do it real quick. Remember that guy just come in and get me a minute before you need me. Minute to go by. Send my guy in. He gets him. Outcomes called them. You. There's a guy with his wife leaning over the bars. They're going Lemieux. You suck, you French piece of shit.
00;35;38;02 - 00;35;42;24
Ron Zappolo
You turtle. You're in. Claude Lemieux ignores it, right? It doesn't.
00;35;42;27 - 00;35;44;12
Tom Green
Look up it. They might have heard it before.
00;35;44;13 - 00;35;55;16
Ron Zappolo
He's probably up before. Doesn't say a word. Does the interview very polite. Thank you very much. We get done. He takes the mic off and he walks right towards the guy. He says, you got something to say to me?
00;35;55;18 - 00;35;59;14
Natasha
And the guy in the room like you.
00;35;59;16 - 00;36;02;03
Ron Zappolo
You looked at me and went,
00;36;02;05 - 00;36;04;03
Natasha
And went back. I think it's.
00;36;04;03 - 00;36;06;03
Ron Zappolo
My favorite club. The moose Story.
00;36;06;03 - 00;36;12;03
Tom Green
One one quick hockey note because today's the anniversary of Mike Milbury and Peter McNabb and the Bruins going into the.
00;36;12;03 - 00;36;13;05
Ron Zappolo
End of the stands.
00;36;13;05 - 00;36;14;13
Tom Green
At Madison Square Garden.
00;36;14;13 - 00;36;25;13
Ron Zappolo
Yeah, you know, Peter McNabb, the nicest guy, the great God love him. Great God rest his soul. We missed the nicest guy. He's in there with the big bad.
00;36;25;15 - 00;36;44;18
Tom Green
Let's go into the guys, get the guys, show off. Hey, I got to tell you guys about a great new sponsor we have here on After the Horn. Now, if you're a homeowner, well, the end of the year is a great time to wipe out debt and start 2026 stress free. The fed is dropping rates again. American financing can access your home's equity in the low five.
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Tom Green
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00;37;04;14 - 00;37;13;13
Tom Green
They are Colorado's home for home loans. You can also reach out to him at American Financing dot net backslash green.
00;37;13;16 - 00;37;14;11
Ron Zappolo
I think he did that.
00;37;14;11 - 00;37;26;15
Tom Green
Very well fellas. Speaking of green Draymond Green you were talking about this the other day. Draymond the other night decided he'd heard enough of Steve Kerr and didn't really need to hang out with us for it.
00;37;26;15 - 00;37;30;23
Woody Paige
Did you listen to the both of them describing that after the game.
00;37;30;25 - 00;37;42;01
Tom Green
Well they're so used to it now. The two of them have spent how many years now explaining Draymond's behavior. I mean like five times a year. They have to have their it's Draymond.
00;37;42;04 - 00;37;50;03
Woody Paige
Well I first of all I understand Draymond Green because Ron tried to walk off the show last night.
00;37;50;05 - 00;37;51;11
Natasha
I'm trying.
00;37;51;14 - 00;38;01;02
Woody Paige
And we had to beg you to come back. Kerr just looked watching the game Kerr looked shocked. Yeah. Just sat there and didn't know what to say.
00;38;01;04 - 00;38;02;06
Tom Green
I hadn't seen that probably.
00;38;02;06 - 00;38;30;09
Woody Paige
And afterward he he still didn't really have an explanation for what happened. Draymond said well we had some problems in it. He was going into well we're 15 and 15. People are satisfied to be that. He said, come back to us. We were 31 and 31 and yeah, you'll see what happens then. They've had a strong arguable relationship for a long time because of green going.
00;38;30;11 - 00;38;34;01
Woody Paige
He cares about the game. He cares about his team.
00;38;34;03 - 00;38;34;21
Tom Green
Braman.
00;38;34;21 - 00;38;55;12
Woody Paige
No. Yeah. Yeah I mean he he does. He that's why he takes on no to play beyond passionate. Yes. And he cares about the game. And he gets technical fouls about it all the time. He doesn't like the officials in there better than you do. But that's a that's a situation that has to end. I mean they now have to break up.
00;38;55;14 - 00;38;57;09
Woody Paige
There's no future for that.
00;38;57;11 - 00;38;58;20
Ron Zappolo
It's at the end.
00;38;58;21 - 00;39;00;20
Tom Green
Does it end like how does it end?
00;39;00;22 - 00;39;08;02
Ron Zappolo
Well, like most things end little futile, futile fade away or they'll trade around. They've already started. They let Klay Thompson go.
00;39;08;02 - 00;39;12;03
Tom Green
So where does Draymond go to. To Memphis or New Orleans. One of those games.
00;39;12;05 - 00;39;16;19
Ron Zappolo
I draymond's done. He's got a life after this I think he's a podcaster.
00;39;16;19 - 00;39;17;29
Tom Green
Yeah well that's where the money is.
00;39;17;29 - 00;39;37;20
Ron Zappolo
He is a podcast. We know that he's a television. Performer. Yeah. And I'll say this about Draymond. He's a hothead. Always has been. He's done a lot of things on the floor that I think he is not proud of. When you you're punching Yusef Nurkic in your knee and guys in the balls. But Steve.
00;39;37;20 - 00;39;39;15
Woody Paige
LeBron James versus.
00;39;39;15 - 00;39;59;21
Ron Zappolo
Steve Kerr who I think over the last 30 years is the best coach in the NBA. He's done a remarkable job of dealing with Draymond Green. I think he knows how important Draymond Green was to their championships. But I also think he's human and he's gotten to the point where.
00;39;59;23 - 00;40;00;29
Tom Green
You run out.
00;40;01;02 - 00;40;05;27
Ron Zappolo
Where we're at the end of this run, run out of it, okay. When we're wasting the trophy.
00;40;05;27 - 00;40;10;24
Woody Paige
I'll give you a team for him though. Detroit Pistons.
00;40;10;27 - 00;40;11;25
Ron Zappolo
He's from there to.
00;40;11;29 - 00;40;12;23
Tom Green
This thing. Does he.
00;40;12;23 - 00;40;14;01
Woody Paige
Have. That's why I bring it up.
00;40;14;01 - 00;40;18;22
Tom Green
But does he have a lot left. Do you still see him playing at. You know you'd get Draymond.
00;40;18;22 - 00;40;23;14
Ron Zappolo
But got to be get the right team. He's got to be on a team that uses that type of skill.
00;40;23;17 - 00;40;25;28
Tom Green
And he's a sixth guy. Now.
00;40;26;00 - 00;40;42;27
Ron Zappolo
But he's a facilitator. You know he's an agitator. He's but he's like he's an energy guy. Yeah. Rebound. He'll play some good defense. He'll he'll he'll set people up. He'll shoot the occasional three. But at this stage of his career he's a role player.
00;40;43;00 - 00;41;00;16
Woody Paige
You mentioned the guy earlier Claude Lemieux was back in town. So. Yeah. Championship. Yeah. I looked at him and said, it's hard to believe that he was, you know, a fighter, a brawler, a guy who was in everybody's face. He looked just like you. He was a nice old guy.
00;41;00;18 - 00;41;03;28
Natasha
Yeah, yeah. Well, we will hopefully get like that.
00;41;03;28 - 00;41;05;12
Tom Green
We all hopefully grow out of it.
00;41;05;14 - 00;41;06;18
Ron Zappolo
He is a nice little guy.
00;41;06;21 - 00;41;13;22
Tom Green
CFP playoff action this week. We saw, sadly my, my Tulane JMU parlay went down.
00;41;13;23 - 00;41;20;05
Ron Zappolo
Yeah. What'd you think of now that we saw those two games, or at least some of the saw them, I didn't turn them on.
00;41;20;06 - 00;41;21;09
Tom Green
Would you rather see Notre Dame?
00;41;21;09 - 00;41;23;15
Ron Zappolo
Would you rather see Notre Dame play Oregon, or were you.
00;41;23;19 - 00;41;24;08
Tom Green
Are you.
00;41;24;08 - 00;41;26;04
Ron Zappolo
Are you happy with what they had?
00;41;26;06 - 00;41;36;09
Tom Green
No, it didn't work. And, you know, the television schedule told you what you were going to get. I mean, you, they were on TNT opposite NFL. I mean, that was it was a perfect.
00;41;36;16 - 00;42;01;27
Ron Zappolo
Example of what what makes the NFL great. And we're college football. Sticks a fork in their eye. The bears and the Packers, because of the way it's set up, play this incredible game that the nation had to flock to. And on the other channel we saw, we saw the Romans against the wire.
00;42;01;29 - 00;42;02;06
Natasha
Yeah.
00;42;02;06 - 00;42;08;23
Ron Zappolo
I mean, I mean, you just you tell me you're the college football guy here. Is that good for college football?
00;42;08;23 - 00;42;34;09
Woody Paige
What you know is, as much as, you enjoy college football, you know that the committee is going to change the rules again after this year. Like they've gone to 12. Now, we realize that doesn't settle the matter. You still have the Notre Dame, BYU conversations, but you can't end up having James Madison. No offense. I mean, last week I talked about he was a good president.
00;42;34;09 - 00;42;37;08
Woody Paige
Yeah. You know, this is not a team that belongs in the the other.
00;42;37;08 - 00;42;38;04
Tom Green
Ten guys let him.
00;42;38;04 - 00;42;47;23
Woody Paige
Down. And James Madison really doesn't belong in the top ten of all time presidents either. But that's got to be settled.
00;42;48;00 - 00;42;56;00
Ron Zappolo
You know what, Chuck Todd? The plaque on James Madison's wall. Now, I notice the Trump put up all the pictures with the, you know, the captions underneath.
00;42;56;01 - 00;42;58;17
Tom Green
Well, they added the score. Okay. Against Oregon.
00;42;58;17 - 00;43;01;00
Ron Zappolo
Yeah, maybe that was it. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I didn't mean.
00;43;01;00 - 00;43;25;05
Woody Paige
You know, just saying that, they they've got to straighten this out again. But we go through this every year with the college, championship playoff championship. How are you going to handle it? And, and again, it's almost in this country where we are so negative now about all sports because they're they're not doing it correctly.
00;43;25;10 - 00;43;38;12
Woody Paige
Well, they're not doing it correctly. And if they can't figure that out, I mentioned a week ago the Heisman Trophy, committee is actually doing something about it. If you don't watch football games, you can't vote.
00;43;38;12 - 00;43;50;28
Tom Green
So as bad as the Tulane and James Madison games turned out, they were forecast to be what they were. They became exactly what they were going to be. They were non contests. The Texas A&M Miami game was close but terrible.
00;43;51;00 - 00;43;52;10
Ron Zappolo
Yeah it was I watched it.
00;43;52;10 - 00;43;53;03
Tom Green
That was.
00;43;53;03 - 00;43;57;03
Ron Zappolo
Brutal. I mean it was 3 to 3 going to about three minutes to go in the game.
00;43;57;03 - 00;44;01;14
Tom Green
Nobody could kick it or throw it or catch it. I mean it was it.
00;44;01;20 - 00;44;05;07
Woody Paige
And Texas A&M, a team that I was high on all season.
00;44;05;10 - 00;44;07;00
Ron Zappolo
You weren't alone there with you was.
00;44;07;00 - 00;44;30;17
Woody Paige
As low as you could get. They looked so bad. It was like what we see in bowl games. I mean, think about it. I can't figure out any bowl game. I can't figure out what town they're in. I used to, you know, you'd say kut bowl. Oh that's Dallas. Well, I don't even know what these companies are that are that's what they're trying to get out of me, is that although.
00;44;30;20 - 00;44;36;05
Tom Green
There are a lot of a lot of people in Denver wondering who in power is and empower field power does.
00;44;36;05 - 00;44;38;00
Ron Zappolo
Go back to the Miami, Texas A&M.
00;44;38;00 - 00;44;42;08
Woody Paige
Yeah. Your powers, offices are located about three blocks from me.
00;44;42;13 - 00;45;00;10
Ron Zappolo
Miami scored and Texas A&M, for the first time in the game. Boom. Came right down the field. Yeah, I mean right down the field. And it was third and goal from the seven. There's about 50s to go. This is what's wrong with gambling okay.
00;45;00;13 - 00;45;03;07
Woody Paige
See the quarterback get off by long.
00;45;03;12 - 00;45;28;27
Ron Zappolo
Yeah the quarterback makes a throw. And the only two human beings around the throw were two guys wearing different colored uniforms. And I get his college quarterback. You make mistakes. Pressurized situation. But I looked at the replay and I thought, well, look what compelled you.
00;45;28;29 - 00;45;31;23
Tom Green
Like that's open to see. Okay. Oh, yeah. Me too.
00;45;31;23 - 00;45;52;18
Ron Zappolo
It behind there would have been another play. You could have thrown it in Lake Erie as you just had a friend of ours on here. But he threw it right to those two guys. And I just it always makes me again, I'm cynical, but I always wonder that that's. I know he's a college kid, so I'm going to say okay, fine.
00;45;52;20 - 00;45;54;22
Ron Zappolo
But it looked weird.
00;45;54;22 - 00;46;20;03
Tom Green
To me watching those four games, watching things progress. Things shuffled a little bit in my head involving teams that didn't play. I'm not too high on Indiana right now, and I don't know who's going to beat Ohio State. And I don't know how those games without those two teams playing changed my Vista, but they did. I just started thinking maybe it's the quality of college football played at a top level.
00;46;20;05 - 00;46;33;28
Tom Green
And I thought, you know, good luck trying to beat Ohio State and Ohio State's thinking. Not only did we beat Michigan, we apparently destroyed their entire football program there. They probably wish they had the death penalty compared to.
00;46;33;28 - 00;46;40;10
Ron Zappolo
What you gave them. What for? You may have beaten us five years in a row, but our one win.
00;46;40;13 - 00;46;44;04
Tom Green
Apparently they've set Michigan football back 60.
00;46;44;06 - 00;46;53;29
Woody Paige
But Michigan might learn from SMU. Maybe it's a good idea to go away for ten years because we now kind of respect this SMU football. Yes.
00;46;54;01 - 00;46;55;24
Tom Green
And now it's a great Cinderella story.
00;46;55;24 - 00;47;07;12
Woody Paige
They're bad people who don't know. They got the death penalty and they disappeared from, you know, football for quite a while. And now people go, oh, they should belong in the playoff system.
00;47;07;19 - 00;47;23;22
Tom Green
Fellas Christmas week. It's a great week. Nice to nice to see you in your festive outfit. I should point out behind Woody, for those of us who are listening and not watching, he does have his chalkboard that says lead me not into temptation. I'm already there. So like that's a good one.
00;47;23;22 - 00;47;26;20
Woody Paige
But I like to, you know, I like to go biblical a tomorrow.
00;47;26;26 - 00;47;33;03
Tom Green
Also for the listeners, Woody has a blinking sweatshirt on, so it's it's something else altogether.
00;47;33;05 - 00;47;34;28
Ron Zappolo
What are you guys doing for Christmas?
00;47;35;01 - 00;47;44;00
Tom Green
I'm going to sit up in the mountains, enjoy time with the family, and obviously stay in touch with as many friends and other family members around the country. And I'm like, celebrating.
00;47;44;03 - 00;47;45;20
Woody Paige
Did you ever watch Seinfeld?
00;47;45;22 - 00;47;46;15
Ron Zappolo
Oh, yeah.
00;47;46;18 - 00;47;47;12
Tom Green
Festivus.
00;47;47;12 - 00;47;48;13
Natasha
Yeah.
00;47;48;16 - 00;47;52;01
Ron Zappolo
That's a white guy's thing to do. Of course I watched it lot.
00;47;52;04 - 00;47;52;14
Natasha
A lot.
00;47;52;14 - 00;48;18;01
Ron Zappolo
Though. So I'm watching the Stuart Scott documentary, which was really good about. And he's rich. Eisen is telling the story that Stuart Scott's doing all these references to hip hop and everything else. So he goes, I'm going to get into it. And he does a Seinfeld reference and Stuart Scott system. What was that? Because that was Seinfeld. Stuart Scott looks at him and goes, brothers don't watch something.
00;48;18;03 - 00;48;19;19
Natasha
We,
00;48;19;22 - 00;48;43;08
Woody Paige
We talked about the John Elway documentary. Yeah. Stuart Scott documentary is also one that people should watch. Yes. And I had the opportunity to work with him, for three seasons on a show called, Dream Job. And he said to me that I was the only one that put him on the floor laughing. And I don't bring it up because of me.
00;48;43;10 - 00;49;01;06
Woody Paige
It shows how stupid I am. There were two finalist in anybody's watched America's Got Talent or any of the reality shows with the judges. So I'm a judge on Dream Job, and he's the host of the show. We get down to two finalists and I have to judge them. And I said to one guy, you were rock solid tonight.
00;49;01;12 - 00;49;22;08
Woody Paige
You were so rock solid. You handled every situation perfectly. And I can't say anything negative about anything you do. I turn to the other guy who wasn't very good, and I'm trying to think of what to say about him. And I said, well, you were rock and I didn't have a word. And I said, you were rock hard.
00;49;22;10 - 00;49;23;23
Woody Paige
Stuart Scott would do.
00;49;23;25 - 00;49;25;22
Natasha
Yes.
00;49;25;25 - 00;49;37;09
Woody Paige
You know, I was hoping that would be in the documentary because we had a studio audience. Those people are falling all over everywhere. And to this day, I still can't think of a word that does.
00;49;37;09 - 00;49;38;09
Tom Green
A rock lobster.
00;49;38;09 - 00;49;38;25
Woody Paige
Roll.
00;49;38;28 - 00;49;40;21
Ron Zappolo
Two words, and that's a good story.
00;49;40;28 - 00;49;43;03
Tom Green
That's another great Christmas message.
00;49;43;05 - 00;49;45;22
Natasha
Woody.
00;49;45;24 - 00;49;46;20
Woody Paige
That's my Christmas.
00;49;46;20 - 00;49;47;13
Natasha
Message.
00;49;47;16 - 00;49;49;13
Woody Paige
That try to be rock solid.
00;49;49;14 - 00;49;52;03
Natasha
Christmas instead of yeah.
00;49;52;03 - 00;49;53;23
Ron Zappolo
Well, I'm going to have a cast of thousands.
00;49;53;23 - 00;49;54;13
Tom Green
I know you got the.
00;49;54;13 - 00;49;58;16
Ron Zappolo
Family well and a lot of hangers on too. So, you know, as it usually is at my.
00;49;58;16 - 00;49;59;04
Woody Paige
House and I'm.
00;49;59;05 - 00;50;00;21
Tom Green
Throwing writers and say.
00;50;00;23 - 00;50;02;20
Ron Zappolo
Oh, yeah, most writers and steak eaters, I'm.
00;50;02;20 - 00;50;14;29
Woody Paige
Throw it for you. And Elway did you both are such great grandfathers. The only thing I'm grandfathered is I still have my mileage or you know what? I have father, grandfather Elway.
00;50;14;29 - 00;50;22;11
Ron Zappolo
And I will probably would tell you were both, to be honest, better grandfathers than we were fathers.
00;50;22;11 - 00;50;23;15
Tom Green
Well, you have all the time, you know.
00;50;23;15 - 00;50;42;26
Ron Zappolo
I know what you felt like. And I think watching that, it touched me because you both can identify with this. You know, I spent 40 years working until 1030 at night. So you miss a lot, with your kids. Your kids get a lot of, bonus because of what you do, but you miss a lot of stuff with them.
00;50;42;26 - 00;51;01;27
Ron Zappolo
Yeah, and it adds up over time. So I think, being a grandfather. And I saw it in the Elway duck. It's great, because when you're a grandfather and you can hear your wife or your daughter or who you going to do, well, who's going to watch your kids? Hey, I'm available, man. I got nothing else to do.
00;51;01;29 - 00;51;06;01
Tom Green
Well, we hope that you have a great Christmas week as well. That's going to do it for this.
00;51;06;01 - 00;51;09;05
Woody Paige
Week that we hope that Natasha, who's.
00;51;09;08 - 00;51;11;27
Tom Green
She's typing away over there, she's sending out her.
00;51;11;29 - 00;51;12;24
Woody Paige
Actually she's.
00;51;12;26 - 00;51;16;22
Ron Zappolo
Telling us she's writing this, a memo telling us what a good job we've done this.
00;51;16;22 - 00;51;25;17
Woody Paige
Week. You got to play with pain sometime. You got to play hurt. And she's recovering from. And we wish you well. And I hope you have a great,
00;51;25;19 - 00;51;28;02
Tom Green
You're sitting over there terrified he's going.
00;51;28;04 - 00;51;29;26
Ron Zappolo
Yeah. What he might say.
00;51;29;29 - 00;51;48;07
Speaker 5
Well, it's fine, but yes, I did have a procedure. Thank you. And, you know, for our new, sponsor. Yeah. I'm just going to tell them that I have a new kit, and that's what I'm redoing for. For Christmas. My house is infested with fleas, so they want to send me some new furniture. I could use it.
00;51;48;10 - 00;51;50;18
Natasha
To make the care a lot easier.
00;51;50;20 - 00;51;53;01
Tom Green
Sitting in chairs, chairs, a hefty chair.
00;51;53;01 - 00;51;55;01
Ron Zappolo
It takes a good. Just look.
00;51;55;02 - 00;52;04;18
Woody Paige
I would like to, My Christmas spirit is we work with the team that is behind the scenes here.
00;52;04;20 - 00;52;06;03
Ron Zappolo
At Gorilla Sports.
00;52;06;03 - 00;52;11;14
Woody Paige
And they do such an incredible job because somebody has to.
00;52;11;16 - 00;52;25;21
Tom Green
They make our job easy, right? For John and Ashley and Blake and Dave, all of the people who really, make this show come together every week. We want to say thanks to them and wish we always wish them a merry Christmas. But, thanks again for all the work you've done this year and more.
00;52;25;21 - 00;52;42;28
Woody Paige
To come in. All of you out there, really, it's been a tough year in the United States, a tough year in the entire world, and we hope that, the holidays can at least bring you some joy and maybe some hope for what happens in 2026.
00;52;42;28 - 00;52;44;07
Ron Zappolo
Amen.
00;52;44;10 - 00;52;51;17
Tom Green
That's going to do it for us. You can always reach us, at at Gorilla Sportsnet. And we wish you a very Merry Christmas. Thanks.